[JimBob]

I'm new to the forum and new to HD/TIVO.

I've read enough to uncover there might be a format change coming (MPEG-2 to MPEG-4). So should I go ahead and get the current version of the HR10-250 or wait?

Does anyone know with any certainty how long before the upgrade comes?

Thanks,
JimBob

 

[litzdog911]

The new MPEG4-based HD DVR probably won't appear until early 2006, so only you can decide if it's worth buying an HR10-250 now. We expect that DirecTV will offer a sweet upgrade/swap deal, but no specific details have been announced yet.

 

[Vivid]

Nothing is certain apart from if you don't get the HR10 you won't have an HD DVR for 6 months or more... that being said if I was in your boat I'm not sure what I would do...

If we knew how D* was going to replace the HR10 for customers when the new MPEG-4 box comes out it would be a lot easier to advise; whether they will do straight swap, charge a small upgrade fee, large upgrade fee or leave us high and dry with nothing.

 

[tbb1226]

If we knew how D* was going to replace the HR10 for customers when the new MPEG-4 box comes out it would be a lot easier to advise; whether they will do straight swap, charge a small upgrade fee, large upgrade fee or leave us high and dry with nothing.

You can bet the farm that it will not be either of those last two. They've announced already that they'll be footing the bill for swapping customers' equipment. The exact deal is TBD, but it won't be financially burdensome on the customer.

The only real unknown is what sort of DVR service they'll give us instead of TiVo.

 

[JimBob]

So is the question more aligned with the TIVO service itself and its interface with D* rather than the format of HD??

Please, please pardon me for my ignorance on this?

 

[litzdog911]

So is the question more aligned with the TIVO service itself and its interface with D* rather than the format of HD??

Please, please pardon me for my ignorance on this?

Both. The next generation DirecTV DVRs will not use Tivo software. And, the HiDef video format is changing from MPEG2 to MPEG4.

 

[NotATameLion]

So is the question more aligned with the TIVO service itself and its interface with D* rather than the format of HD??

Please, please pardon me for my ignorance on this?

I think the question right now for most people is dropping $500 or more on hardware that will be obsolete at an indeterminent point in the future, and it is unknown what the upgrade cost will be.

The question of MPEG-2 vs MPEG-4 format is not directly related to what to purchase. Neither codec in itself will mean better or worse picture quality. MPEG-4 allows better compression, so requires a lower bitrate to achieve the same PQ as MPEG-2. This is why D* is converting to MPEG-4. It is indirectly related to your purchase decision in that the HR10-250 only decodes MPEG-2, so eventually it will need to be replaced when D* has fully converted to MPEG-4 and turns off the MPEG-2 stream. But who knows when that will be, and D* has announced in their 1Q conf call that they will be taking an expense for hardware swapouts.

We do know that the new D* DVRs will not be running TiVo software, so if that is where your loyalty lies, then your choice is to wait for TiVo to release its standalone CableCard HD DVR, which I don't know if it is even announced officially yet. Or if you have Comcast cable you can wait for them to ship a TiVo box, but this agreement was just announced, so who knows how long that will be.

If you aren't tied to TiVo software, your choices are:
1. wait until D* releases and MPEG-4 HD DVR, which is unknown, but probably sometime in 2006. Either stick to SD, watch HD live OTA, or switch to cable or Dish in the interim.
2. buy the HR10-250 now, and bank on getting a free upgrade when you need it, or at least an upgrade cheap enough to be worth having an HD DVR for the next 6 to 12 months or longer.

My opinion is that the concensus is that D* takes reasonably good care of their customers, and has swapped hardware out when needed in the past, so the swapout cost is very likely to be very low. Also, the new hardware has been announced, but not delivered, and delivery dates are often much farther out than when they were initially announced.

 

[Vivid]

You can bet the farm that it will not be either of those last two. They've announced already that they'll be footing the bill for swapping customers' equipment. The exact deal is TBD, but it won't be financially burdensome on the customer.

I hope your right and D* does treat its customers in the right way but we just don't know... and when D* said they won’t leave us high and dry, their offer could be a 50% discount on the new box $1000, some might say that generous other might say that's burdensome.

Fingers crossed it will be a free swap or just the FedEx cost and I have to say I don’t think it will be a straight swap, that would cost them a whole bunch and really what choice do we have; A class action suit? Technology changes and they are not responsible for that, we will have had over a years notice? You could change provider but I will stay with D* no matter how they handle it because of Sunday Ticket, but that does not mean I won’t be pissed if the swap offer is not a good one.

 

[Broken Link]

When they make the switch to mpeg4 I didnt know that they would take my tivo.
I cant bare the thought of being tivoless.

 

[Vivid]

When they make the switch to mpeg4 I didnt know that they would take my tivo.
I cant bare the thought of being tivoless.

I think you will be able to keep the HR10 and it will work just as it does right now for a while... You are not being fored to swap initialy but if you don't you wont get the new HD channels

 

[Scott D]

If we go TiVoless, what'll happen to these two forums for HD TiVo and DirecTV with TiVo

 

[tbb1226]

Fingers crossed it will be a free swap or just the FedEx cost and I have to say I don’t think it will be a straight swap, that would cost them a whole bunch and really what choice do we have; A class action suit? Technology changes and they are not responsible for that, we will have had over a years notice? You could change provider but I will stay with D* no matter how they handle it because of Sunday Ticket, but that does not mean I won’t be pissed if the swap offer is not a good one.

IMHO, they are indeed responsible for technology changes that obsolete hardware so soon after its introduction (IIRC, the announcement was less than a year after the HD-TiVo debuted). Because they announced the switch to MPEG4, then continued to market and sell the HD-TiVo (and their other MPEG2 HD receivers) at pretty much the same (high) prices, they are absolutely obligated (morally, if not legally ) to offer a no-cost swap to those who went HD after the announcement. It's less imperative that they offer it to those of us that jumped in before the announcement, but they'd have to be really stupid to risk alienating their most lucrative customers by withholding it.

Again, we may not like what they offer in exchange, but it will have "similar" functionality, and almost certainly will not cost us anything additional (aside from time off work waiting for the installer, that is ).

 

[NotATameLion]

If we go TiVoless, what'll happen to these two forums for HD TiVo and DirecTV with TiVo

I was wondering that as well. AVSForum?

 

[Vivid]

IMHO, they are indeed responsible for technology changes that obsolete hardware so soon after its introduction (IIRC, the announcement was less than a year after the HD-TiVo debuted). Because they announced the switch to MPEG4, then continued to market and sell the HD-TiVo (and their other MPEG2 HD receivers) at pretty much the same (high) prices, they are absolutely obligated (morally, if not legally ) to offer a no-cost swap to those who went HD after the announcement.

As I said I hope your right but that line of thinking can be applied to any and all forms of technology... Will Microsoft replace my xbox and games when the xbox 2 comes out? My current games wont play on it. Will MS replace my incompatible software when Longhorn comes out? When they finally decided on an HD DVD format will all my DVDs bought after the announcement be replaced with HD versions? The list goes on and I think we would all agree the answer is no they would not give me anything...

I think its great that D* is going to do something and I feel that its required due to the extremely short period of time that the change has/will happen. But going back to the original qu of to buy or not to buy, I just don't know, it depends on what D* does when MPEG-4 comes out and we don’t know.

 

[DaveWhittle]

As I said I hope your right but that line of thinking can be applied to any and all forms of technology... Will Microsoft replace my xbox and games when the xbox 2 comes out? My current games wont play on it. Will MS replace my incompatible software when Longhorn comes out?

:down: These are really bad analogies.

Your Xbox will still work after Xbox 360 comes out. You will still be able to play Halo2 on it, even on Live. You will still be able to use your computer with Windows XP and all the software that was written for XP when Longhorn comes out.

With DirecTV, once they change to MPEG4, those with MPEG2 hardware won't be able to use their hardware, so a switch needs to be made.

 

[Vivid]

:down: These are really bad analogies.

Your Xbox will still work after Xbox 360 comes out. You will still be able to play Halo2 on it, even on Live. You will still be able to use your computer with Windows XP and all the software that was written for XP when Longhorn comes out.

With DirecTV, once they change to MPEG4, those with MPEG2 hardware won't be able to use their hardware, so a switch needs to be made.

Not really... the HR10 also will still work, problably for several years of HD and many years of SD. I don't belive D* has said when they will stop MPEG-2 so we don't know when it will stop working for HD. And I can't find software for windows 98 just as when MPEG-2 stops we won't be able to find new HD shows to record you can still watch your recorded HD shows and recod new stuff in SD... Its technology it gets updated and obsolete, that just life...

But D* is going to help us some how and I agree that they sould. My point is that I don't think the upgrade is going to be free or close to free as others think.

 

[DaveWhittle]

And I can't find software for windows 98 just as when MPEG-2 stops we won't be able to find new HD shows to record you can still watch your recorded HD shows and recod new stuff in SD... Its technology it gets updated and obsolete, that just life...

I don't understand your logic. You buy a computer with Windows 98, you buy software for windows '98 and do your computing. Just because Microsoft updates the OS and new software is written for that update, it has no baring on your Windows '98 computer. Just because some new program comes out that you want and isn't supported on Win98 doesn't mean you are "owed" a free copy of XP, Longhorn or whatever. Another analogy: if I own Abby Road on vinyl it doesn't mean I get a free copy of it on CD because I replaced my turntable with a CD player. Nor am I owed a CD player because I can't find any albums anymore - all my old albums still work fine on my turntable.

On the other hand, DirecTV will someday turn off MPEG2. Subscribers with MPEG2 decoding hardware will need new hardware. If DirecTV wants to keep those subscribers, they better supply them with replacement hardware.

 

[Vivid]

You buy a computer with Windows 98, you buy software for windows '98 and do your computing. Just because Microsoft updates the OS and new software is written for that update, it has no baring on your Windows '98 computer. Just because some new program comes out that you want and isn't supported on Win98 doesn't mean you are "owed" a free copy of XP, Longhorn or whatever.

Exactly you've said it better that I... Let me take exactly what you said and make it for the HR10.

You buy an HR10 with Tivo, you record shows for Tivo and do your watching. Just because D* updates the codec and new shows are written for that update, it has no baring on your HR10. Just because some new shows comes out that you want and isn't supported on HR10 doesn't mean you are "owed" a free copy of XP, Longhorn or whatever.

 

[Robert Spalding]

the HD Tivo is getting a new price ($699) as of the 17th of May, wai until then

 

[Vivid]

the HD Tivo is getting a new price ($699) as of the 17th of May, wai until then

Definatly and enjoy what the box can do now and worry about how long it can do it later.