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7200 not ideal but not too bad for a Roamio. Bit noiser, bit hotter but I use some with no problems. The only problem I can think of is I think there is a limit on how many add/add fixes you can do. So will depend on how many you did originally to get to 12TB? Limit might be 5? If you started with an 8, did 2 to get it to 12, would need two more to get to 16, should be fine. If you started with a 4 or a 6 (or something else, smaller) you've probably done at least 3-4 already. Need 2 more. Not sure on the specifics of the limitation, you'd have to do a bit more research. Pretty sure 20TB is max, if starting with 8TB that would be 6 add/addfixes. So maybe 6 is the limit, not sure.
 

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Just FYI I THINK when you do a copy/expand/add/addfix it will tell you how many expansions you have left. Will show new hours and something like "this drive can be expanded X more times". So if you clone the 12 to the 16, do the first add/addfix should tell you how many new hours and how many more expansions available. Some of my drives I approached the limit, maybe started with a 500GB, copy/expand to 2TB, then 3TB, then 4TB and beyond.
 

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There is a program called bootsectorfix that needs to be ran on your source drive before copying the drive.

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Thanks to ggieseke, tommage1, jmbach;

I started all over again and have successfully upgraded to 12TB Tivo.

Notes that may help other newbies.
  1. I first tried putting in the 12TB to the Roamio to allow it to format up to 3 TB and the hoped to expand it using the instructions at front of this thread. The Roamio only showed enough HD hours for 1TB so something wasn't right.
  2. I had a spare 500GB drive and so put that into the Roamio and it formatted it and the hours seemed right for 500GB. I then attempted using the instructions and got a error (#3 below)
  3. The error "Copy Source: Can not determine primary boot partition from boot sector" I fixed using "bootsectorfix" command in MFS Tools.
  4. Followed the instruction at the beginning of the thread and checked the hard drive after each expansion noting the HD hours were increasing.
    699 HD hours (Initial Roamio format) --> 1052 HD hours --> 1405 HD hours --> 1758 HD hours --> 1926 HD hours (end, can't expand anymore)
  5. Note that I had to figure out to place "sudo" in front of all the commands (instruction from the MFS Tools thread) as I was just cutting and pasting instructions from the beginning of thread (changing the drive letter)

    Example: "mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY" had to be "sudo mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY"

  6. Drive used = Western Digital WD120EMFZ
@jmbach - Let me know if there's some beer fund to donate to for your work.

Good luck to all upgraders!

MMole
 
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And while I plan this upgrade and to clone my 12TB to my new 16TB - can anyone recommend the fastest way to do that clone? I have a spare win10 machine I can boot into linux or win10 and put both drives in as internal sata drives to maximize speed but I assume it'll take what it'll take - lke 20-30hours? Thanks for any tips - I think I used ddrescue run from the mfstools bootable usb drive with only the two tivo drives hooked up internally like I did for the 8tb to 12tb clone a couple years ago. So I'll try that again for the 12tb to 16tb clone unless someone has a quicker method.
 

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So wait, if I had my Tivo Roamio format a 3TB drive for me, then upgraded that with MFSTools I can clone it with say Clonezilla and then use MFSTools to expand again? That would be 16TB and not 20tb, right?
 

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And while I plan this upgrade and to clone my 12TB to my new 16TB - can anyone recommend the fastest way to do that clone? I have a spare win10 machine I can boot into linux or win10 and put both drives in as internal sata drives to maximize speed but I assume it'll take what it'll take - lke 20-30hours? Thanks for any tips - I think I used ddrescue run from the mfstools bootable usb drive with only the two tivo drives hooked up internally like I did for the 8tb to 12tb clone a couple years ago. So I'll try that again for the 12tb to 16tb clone unless someone has a quicker method.
No matter what drives of this size will take a good amount of time. If you plan on doing more clones in the future quickest probably a cloning dock, that's what I use. Interesting you used ddrescue, if there were potential problems with the source drive probably good idea but I doubt the quickest method, does error checking. Though I could be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #548 ·
And while I plan this upgrade and to clone my 12TB to my new 16TB - can anyone recommend the fastest way to do that clone? I have a spare win10 machine I can boot into linux or win10 and put both drives in as internal sata drives to maximize speed but I assume it'll take what it'll take - lke 20-30hours? Thanks for any tips - I think I used ddrescue run from the mfstools bootable usb drive with only the two tivo drives hooked up internally like I did for the 8tb to 12tb clone a couple years ago. So I'll try that again for the 12tb to 16tb clone unless someone has a quicker method.
If the original drive is good, then a cloning dock would be the way to go.

If you want to use a computer, dobyou wantvto clone via Linux or Windows?

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Discussion Starter · #549 ·
Thanks again jmbach and ggieske and tommage1 for your help/thoughts.

I think this looks good - wish I had an 18TB to use all three remaining expands.
am plotting some enhanced airflow for the 7200 rpm 16TB drive's increased heat.

View attachment 73584
So your drive would be fine cloning and then expanding. You can technically add 8 more TB to that drive.

So with your 12 TB almost full you are not running into any operational issues?

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Discussion Starter · #550 ·
So wait, if I had my Tivo Roamio format a 3TB drive for me, then upgraded that with MFSTools I can clone it with say Clonezilla and then use MFSTools to expand again? That would be 16TB and not 20tb, right?
So using MFSTools alone you can go up to 16 TB drive.

If you use MFSR first and the MFSTools you can go up to a 20 TB drive

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So using MFSTools alone you can go up to 16 TB drive.

If you use MFSR first and the MFSTools you can go up to a 20 TB drive

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Thanks jmbach. I'm not sure how many expansions I did original (Since I went 3TB on a roamio formatted drive then upgraded that via MFSTools, cloning and expanding to 10TB) Looks like I'll look for a 16TB drive and try the upgrade and see where I end up.
 

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So your drive would be fine cloning and then expanding. You can technically add 8 more TB to that drive.

So with your 12 TB almost full you are not running into any operational issues?

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Thanks - the "you can expand three more times" doesn't limit me to 12TB + 6TB more (3x2TB)? (though I will only be adding 4TB to it this time going from 12 to 16). I guess in theory I'd go 16 to 20 in a few years if cable card/roamio/fios all cooperate to keep me using record from cable which I prefer to streaming so much.

I have occasional random restarts - usually when I have kmttg doing something and several shows recording and I begin to click the slide remote a bunch of times not thinking and overload it. I do occasional restarts and pull power to box for a bit and permanently remove all deleted and that seems to keep me going well. I did have a spell back in the winter when it was in a restart loop if connected to ethernet but finally solved that with power off restarts/plug pulls, weird show fragment deletes, deleted show deletes.

I feel like I do run up against the Roamio Plus' processor/MB limits but overall it works like a champ. What are symptoms of a nearly full huge drive?

Seeking to do non dock clone because before when I tried dock clone it went like 12 hours then hung up and I didn't know if it was going to complete vs. ddrescue that let me see progress, etc.

7200 rpm doesn't concern you at all?

THanks so much!
 

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Discussion Starter · #553 ·
Thanks - the "you can expand three more times" doesn't limit me to 12TB + 6TB more (3x2TB)? (though I will only be adding 4TB to it this time going from 12 to 16). I guess in theory I'd go 16 to 20 in a few years if cable card/roamio/fios all cooperate to keep me using record from cable which I prefer to streaming so much.

I have occasional random restarts - usually when I have kmttg doing something and several shows recording and I begin to click the slide remote a bunch of times not thinking and overload it. I do occasional restarts and pull power to box for a bit and permanently remove all deleted and that seems to keep me going well. I did have a spell back in the winter when it was in a restart loop if connected to ethernet but finally solved that with power off restarts/plug pulls, weird show fragment deletes, deleted show deletes.

I feel like I do run up against the Roamio Plus' processor/MB limits but overall it works like a champ. What are symptoms of a nearly full huge drive?

Seeking to do non dock clone because before when I tried dock clone it went like 12 hours then hung up and I didn't know if it was going to complete vs. ddrescue that let me see progress, etc.

7200 rpm doesn't concern you at all?

THanks so much!
Expansion depends on a couple of things. One is space in the header for drive names. That is where you get it can be expanded 3 more times. When calculating that MFSTools assumes 2 drive names per expansion. Since we are coalescing the partitions, we are using only one drive name per expansion.

Two is partition slots that can be repurposed. You have 4 left.

As a result, you can expand 4 more times and you will still have enough room in the header for 2 more expansions but no more partitions available for repurposing.

You can use HDD raw copy tool in windows to clone a drive or dd/ddrescue in Linux

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When you clone a drive does anybody know what software is preferred? I'm asking because when I tried to clone my 10TB to a 14TB drive using CloneZilla I got an error of unrecognized disk. (It did recognize it as a WD101efax of 10tb.) Not sure if it's just a loose cable or if I should use some other software/hardware. (The new drive I got is also a western digital and they have a free version of Acronis. Is that known to work?)
 

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When you clone a drive does anybody know what software is preferred? I'm asking because when I tried to clone my 10TB to a 14TB drive using CloneZilla I got an error of unrecognized disk. (It did recognize it as a WD101efax of 10tb.) Not sure if it's just a loose cable or if I should use some other software/hardware. (The new drive I got is also a western digital and they have a free version of Acronis. Is that known to work?)
What you want it the stupidest software possible, that will just byte-for-byte blindly copy everything from one drive to another without considering the content. On a Linux system, the dd command is perfect, and that will be available on any live CD distro of Linux you come across.

Another solution is a cloning dock. I have used this one several time with great success: Alxum USB 3.0 to SATA Hard Drive Docking Station, I have verified that it works with 20 TB drives.

What's great about a cloning dock is that your computer isn't tied up for hours and hours whilst the copy takes place. What's frustrating is that the only way to monitor the status is the progress lights, which (on the Alxum) show when you are 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and completed.

I'm sure there are Windows programs as well that will do the job. The ones I sometimes use are paid software, part of generalized backup packages, and buying one of them for this purpose would be wasteful. I'm looking forward to someone familiar with one or more of the freeware programs to chime into this thread and enlighten us all.
 

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What's great about a cloning dock is that your computer isn't tied up for hours and hours whilst the copy takes place. What's frustrating is that the only way to monitor the status is the progress lights, which (on the Alxum) show when you are 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and completed.
True. I use cloning docks. Only issue COULD be if either drive has errors. Can keep trying and trying to the point where it can actually burn out the dock (says so in instructions). Soooooo, best to do a smart test on both drives before actually attempting the clone in a dock. The no feedback (other than the % lights) is not great either. Cloning really large capacity drives can take a LONG time. I still will continue to use the docks though, takes about 1/2 the time it takes in a computer, very significant with drives over 4TB, more so with 10TB and up. If you do use computer best to connect directly to Sata ports if possible, not possible (pretty much), if using a laptop.
 

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True. I use cloning docks. Only issue COULD be if either drive has errors. Can keep trying and trying to the point where it can actually burn out the dock (says so in instructions). Soooooo, best to do a smart test on both drives before actually attempting the clone in a dock. The no feedback (other than the % lights) is not great either. Cloning really large capacity drives can take a LONG time. I still will continue to use the docks though, takes about 1/2 the time it takes in a computer, very significant with drives over 4TB, more so with 10TB and up. If you do use computer best to connect directly to Sata ports if possible, not possible (pretty much), if using a laptop.
Before doing the smart test on a new drive it is BEST to run a read/write/read test on the drive. Can take a LONG time, up to a week for a really large drive. But since you could be using the new drive for 5-10 years (3.5" CMR drives should last that long) can be worth it since a one time shot. At the least could write zeros to the new drive, then do a smart test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #558 ·
I'm sure there are Windows programs as well that will do the job. The ones I sometimes use are paid software, part of generalized backup packages, and buying one of them for this purpose would be wasteful. I'm looking forward to someone familiar with one or more of the freeware programs to chime into this thread and enlighten us all.
HDD Raw Copy Tool is a such a windows based tool.

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Thanks for the help everybody. Pretty what I'm finding is neither Clonezilla or Acronis would do this. I did see DDRescue could be used and found this link to youtube showing how to use it to do a clone so there's that. FWIW what software do you use to test? I got another WesternDigital drive and installed their "Dashboard" and saw it had a couple of S.M.A.R.T. tests in that package but nothing to do a full test of writes and reads.
 

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True. I use cloning docks. Only issue COULD be if either drive has errors. Can keep trying and trying to the point where it can actually burn out the dock (says so in instructions). Soooooo, best to do a smart test on both drives before actually attempting the clone in a dock. The no feedback (other than the % lights) is not great either. Cloning really large capacity drives can take a LONG time. I still will continue to use the docks though, takes about 1/2 the time it takes in a computer, very significant with drives over 4TB, more so with 10TB and up. If you do use computer best to connect directly to Sata ports if possible, not possible (pretty much), if using a laptop.
I didn't know docks were quicker. Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of maybe this one mostly because I could use a SD card reader which it does as well. (I use desktops which doesn't have a SD card slot.)
 
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