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I'm not freaking out yet, but I am a little concerned that my TE3 Roamio Pro doesn't seem to be able to complete a KS 58.

I did the 3TB-->8TB mfscopy to create the initial 4TB image which booted fine and successfully connected to TiVo network service. Recording capacity went up to 699 HD hours and My Shows reports 63% full vs 91% previously. Cablecard/TA settings are still there, The to-do's, guide info and icons all look fine.

I followed what I think is the recommendation and did a KS 58 before proceeding on to the first mfsadd+fix expansion . I let it run for more that 3 hours on the "Installing an update. This will take a few minutes" screen. Since @jmbach said KS 58 shouldn't take more than 3 hours I pulled the plug at about 3 hours and 20 minutes just to see if I was hosed.

I re-applied power and again it booted-up fine and successfully connected to service. I even let it record a scheduled show. Then I tried another KS 58 and I've already waited even longer than last time, 4-1/2 hours so far, still stuck on the Installing an update screen.

I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and do the two expansions to utilize the full 8TB and not worry that it won't do a KS 58.
Probably best to hear from JMBach on this but I think the KS58s are just a precaution. You could probably do the whole procedure without them, I have. Since this is a Roamio as long as you keep the original drive intact can start over anytime. Yeah, the initial copy can take awhile. I run 58 occasionally if I am having any issues, can clean up some problems that have developed over time.
 

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You know I think I ran the 58 after the entire procedure was done, so being done on a fully expanded drive. Doing it after each step, the first couple would be on a drive with empty space. Maybe 58 does not work under those conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #503 ·
I'm not freaking out yet, but I am a little concerned that my TE3 Roamio Pro doesn't seem to be able to complete a KS 58.

I did the 3TB-->8TB mfscopy to create the initial 4TB image which booted fine and successfully connected to TiVo network service. Recording capacity went up to 699 HD hours and My Shows reports 63% full vs 91% previously. Cablecard/TA settings are still there, The to-do's, guide info and icons all look fine.

I followed what I think is the recommendation and did a KS 58 before proceeding on to the first mfsadd+fix expansion . I let it run for more that 3 hours on the "Installing an update. This will take a few minutes" screen. Since @jmbach said KS 58 shouldn't take more than 3 hours I pulled the plug at about 3 hours and 20 minutes just to see if I was hosed.

I re-applied power and again it booted-up fine and successfully connected to service. I even let it record a scheduled show. Then I tried another KS 58 and I've already waited even longer than last time, 4-1/2 hours so far, still stuck on the Installing an update screen.

I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and do the two expansions to utilize the full 8TB and not worry that it won't do a KS 58. After all I've read I'm certainly not planning to do a KS 57 as long as I don't see any issues with daily use.
If KS 58 does not complete on the copy, many times it does not complete on the original drive as well. It is not a deal breaker. One of my TiVos never finished a KS 58. Another one finished it after the OS updated. No one knows for sure what any of the KS actually do, just surmise what it does from the description in the OS.

I would force the Roamio to connect to the TiVo servers 2 or 3 times and make sure the connection goes to completion. If it does just continue on to the next steps. The KS 58 mainly fixed, when it can, the issue where it would not finished a TiVo connection.



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Thank you both, I'm encouraged.

If KS 58 does not complete on the copy, many times it does not complete on the original drive as well.
This may very well be true. The original drive really wasn't behaving badly, and there were no warnings reported when I ran CrystalDiskInfo, but I had never done a kickstart of any kind on it so who knows if it would have made it through. I'll never know!


I would force the Roamio to connect to the TiVo servers 2 or 3 times and make sure the connection goes to completion. If it does just continue on to the next steps. The KS 58 mainly fixed, when it can, the issue where it would not finished a TiVo connection.
OK, I just aborted this 2nd KS 58 attempt after 7 hours. Again it booted up fine and everything looks normal, and I just did three successive and successful connections. I had done 2 connections after the 1st KS 58 attempt. Evidently there wasn't any guide data to download, the final Loading info takes it's usual time while displaying "(preparing to load)", then (Done) pops up rather than showing progress percentage which I've always thought was usually guide data. I'll have to keep trying that the next couple of days to see if I can catch it downloading data.

OK, I'm off to expand the drive!
 

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Good news! No problem doing the two expansions+fixes, and now I have 1281 HD hours recording capacity which I presume is correct for an 8TB drive. My recordings are now taking up 34% of the drive vs 91% of 3TB. Great!

Bootup continues to be normal, and I did three consecutive connections after each expansion with TiVo reporting "succeeded" after each pass. I'll be glad when I finally see guide data download during a connection. If I was a glutton for punishment I might try another KS 58, but for now I'm going to leave that one alone.

FYI, I did end up using the standard version, not the -tivo one. I'm optimistic about this WD84PURZ drive and was thrilled to see it actually requires fewer watts than the original drive so that should make the power supply happy.

I can't thank those responsible enough for all their contributions!
 

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Good news! No problem doing the two expansions+fixes, and now I have 1281 HD hours recording capacity which I presume is correct for an 8TB drive. My recordings are now taking up 34% of the drive vs 91% of 3TB. Great!

Bootup continues to be normal, and I did three consecutive connections after each expansion with TiVo reporting "succeeded" after each pass. I'll be glad when I finally see guide data download during a connection. If I was a glutton for punishment I might try another KS 58, but for now I'm going to leave that one alone.

FYI, I did end up using the standard version, not the -tivo one. I'm optimistic about this WD84PURZ drive and was thrilled to see it actually requires fewer watts than the original drive so that should make the power supply happy.

I can't thank those responsible enough for all their contributions!
You are in great shape. The Roamio Plus/Pro is the Cadillac of Tivos with the 4 tuner Roamio Basic second, IMO. And a great drive (kind of interesting, I noticed the 8TB Purple Pro is only like $10 more than the 84PURZ with 5 year warranty but don't know what you paid for yours, great drive regardless)

If curious you could run the 58 now that the project is complete. That is what I did with mine. The green screen is kinda just a generic info screen, if your drive was not up to date OS wise it MIGHT try to install an actual update, but your is already up to date. Should take less than 1/2 hour, very quick. If still freezes up for an hour or more unplug and reboot. Or just leave well enough alone ;)

Congrats!
 

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You are in great shape. The Roamio Plus/Pro is the Cadillac of Tivos with the 4 tuner Roamio Basic second, IMO. And a great drive (kind of interesting, I noticed the 8TB Purple Pro is only like $10 more than the 84PURZ with 5 year warranty but don't know what you paid for yours, great drive regardless)
It was about $190 on Amazon. I've seen complaints in reviews about not being able to do warranty registration for drives purchased from some Amazon 3rd party sellers, so I made sure to specify one sold and shipped by Amazon. I had no trouble doing the warranty registration on WD's website using the serial number.

The WD84PURZ was the sweet spot for me, not only because it was about all I was willing to spend but also because it was the largest purple drive that operated at 5640 rpm. The ones 10TB and larger are 7200 rpm. Also, I didn't discover it until later, but this drive draws 26% less power than the Roamio Pro's original 3TB WD30EURS (6.18W vs 8.4W). So in theory that should ease the load on the power supply and the extra efficiency implies less energy wasted in heat.

If curious you could run the 58 now that the project is complete. That is what I did with mine. The green screen is kinda just a generic info screen, if your drive was not up to date OS wise it MIGHT try to install an actual update, but your is already up to date. Should take less than 1/2 hour, very quick. If still freezes up for an hour or more unplug and reboot. Or just leave well enough alone ;)
OK, I'm too easy, I went ahead and gave KS 58 another go. After 3 hours on the "Installing an update" screen I pulled the plug. Just. Not. Going. To. Do. It.

The first connection after rebooting just now was the 1st time since the copy & expansions that I saw "Loading Info" downloading something. I presume it was program guide data (edit: yep, confirmed!). It slowly counted up to 100% without getting hung, so there's another positive sign despite KS 58 not being able to finish.
 

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So here's a small update after a few days on the new 8TB drive in my Roamio Pro:

On the whole everything is chugging along: I always get successful TiVo Service Connections and guide data downloads. Shows are recording and playing back and the tuner buffering works fine. It still won't complete a KS 58 but it has always booted up fine after trying.

There is however one problem, I've discovered a few shows among the recordings copied over from the original 3TB drive that won't play and can't be permanently deleted. I can delete them from My Shows and they do go to the Recently Deleted Recordings folder, but then they can't be permanently deleted -- they're still there even after rebooting. With gobs of disk space now I guess they'll never flush out of the RDR folder and will be there forever to haunt me.

Perhaps KS 57 would fix this but I'm too scared to try it after the horror stories I've read. There are already several new copy-protected recordings on the new drive that I would lose if I reverted back to the original 3TB drive, so I've painted myself in a bit of a corner. I suppose I'll have to consider getting another 8TB drive to clone this one to so I can revert back if a KS 57 hoses the other drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #509 ·
So here's a small update after a few days on the new 8TB drive in my Roamio Pro:

On the whole everything is chugging along: I always get successful TiVo Service Connections and guide data downloads. Shows are recording and playing back and the tuner buffering works fine. It still won't complete a KS 58 but it has always booted up fine after trying.

There is however one problem, I've discovered a few shows among the recordings copied over from the original 3TB drive that won't play and can't be permanently deleted. I can delete them from My Shows and they do go to the Recently Deleted Recordings folder, but then they can't be permanently deleted -- they're still there even after rebooting. With gobs of disk space now I guess they'll never flush out of the RDR folder and will be there forever to haunt me.

Perhaps KS 57 would fix this but I'm too scared to try it after the horror stories I've read. There are already several new copy-protected recordings on the new drive that I would lose if I reverted back to the original 3TB drive, so I've painted myself in a bit of a corner. I suppose I'll have to consider getting another 8TB drive to clone this one to so I can revert back if a KS 57 hoses the other drive.
In my experience the KS 57 never finishes on a Roamio.... even with a freshly formatted drive. Now that was about 2 years pr so when I tried it and it may work on recent OS updates. (Won't hold my breath on that one)

If a KS 57 won't let it boot 3xcept back into a KS 57, you can mfsck in MFSTools to mark the drive good so it would boot normal again.

KS 57 may fix a few things before it gets stuck. I just don't know how far it gets before it locks up.

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In my experience the KS 57 never finishes on a Roamio.... even with a freshly formatted drive. Now that was about 2 years pr so when I tried it and it may work on recent OS updates. (Won't hold my breath on that one)

If a KS 57 won't let it boot 3xcept back into a KS 57, you can mfsck in MFSTools to mark the drive good so it would boot normal again.

KS 57 may fix a few things before it gets stuck. I just don't know how far it gets before it locks up.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk
Thanks for that, in that case I'm staying away from KS 57 for now.

Since posting that last message I've found several more shows that won't play, and worse, for the first time I managed to lock-up the TiVo when trying to play them by pressing Select to accept the Error message instead of just backing out with a left arrow. I had to pull the plug and reboot several times.

I have a hunch: I just remembered that I got a couple of alert messages within mfscopy that I had attributed to the computer being very underpowered and slow. I didn't think much else of it at the time since the alerts were labeled "INFO". Reviewing some screenshots now I see the first came at the 3.37% progress mark which was an INFO alert about a NMI Handler taking too long to run. The second, at the 37%mark, was a repeat of the first alert immediately followed by "interrupt took too long, lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample.rate to 8000.

Now I'm wondering if it's relevant that the problem programs I've found so far were recorded in the days just before the mfscopy procedure, so perhaps they were the ones being copied around the time I got the alert at the 3% progress mark? Could be, I suppose, although I have no idea where they are on the disk. And who knows what dates would have been affected at the 37% mark. Could be another time bomb waiting to go off.

I'm going feel better starting this all over. I now have access to a much better computer than I used before. I just ordered a second 8TB drive and once it arrives the day after tomorrow I'll start the process all over again using the original 3TB and the new drive. Having the 2nd drive will give me a little breathing room since we have just the one TiVo and downtime is painful.
 

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Not sure if asked or posted, but did you run a SMART (maybe Crystal disk info) on the original drive? To see if any errors, before starting the project. Pretty much an immediate result, just reads smart info off the drive. Just make sure when you put in computer you do NOT initialize or format the drive, computer will not recognize since it's in Linux/Tivo format but you can run the Crystal disk test with the drive as is. If you initialize/format you will lose all your Tivo info/software/recordings etc.

If you are going to start over off the original drive I'd say don't bother with the KS58s, just put in and check connections after each step.
 

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Not sure if asked or posted, but did you run a SMART (maybe Crystal disk info) on the original drive? To see if any errors, before starting the project. Pretty much an immediate result, just reads smart info off the drive. Just make sure when you put in computer you do NOT initialize or format the drive, computer will not recognize since it's in Linux/Tivo format but you can run the Crystal disk test with the drive as is. If you initialize/format you will lose all your Tivo info/software/recordings etc.

If you are going to start over off the original drive I'd say don't bother with the KS58s, just put in and check connections after each step.
Thanks for that.

Things were getting progressively worse, e.g. service connections began failing every time when Loading Info, so yesterday I re-installed the original 3TB drive and the Roamio Pro is happy again. One of the first things I tried was playing one of the recorded shows that wouldn't play from the 8TB drive. As I had hoped, the original recording played fine.

I'd wager that a KS 58 on the original drive would successfully complete, and it might even be a good idea to try some clean up before using it for a 2nd mfscopy attempt, but I can't bring myself to do it since I don't know for sure that running the KS 58 on the same data on the new 8TB didn't cause the original problem. I've been running CrystalDiskInfo on all old and new drives before and after each procedure along the way, and everything has always looked good (no yellow warnings).

I mentioned before how mfscopy displayed a couple of alerts during its process perhaps due to the computer being underpowered. Well the day before yesterday that same computer died, couldn't find the C: boot drive. I had to re-do the SATA drive cable connections and now it's not only back but it also seems to be running with a lot less disk churning. So it's entirely possible that SATA cabling issues corrupted the mfscopy.

I received another WD84PURZ yesterday and started the WD Lifeguard tests on it. Although I'm using a faster computer this time the duration of the 1st WD extended read test was roughly the same as before, about 14 hours.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to attempt another mfscopy to this new drive. While that's happening I'll temporarily use the problematic 8TB drive in the TiVo.
 

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'd wager that a KS 58 on the original drive would successfully complete, and it might even be a good idea to try some clean up before using it for a 2nd mfscopy attempt, but I can't bring myself to do it for fear of that being the cause of the original problem. I've been running CrystalDiskInfo on all old and new drives before and after each procedure along the way, and everything has always looked good (no yellow warnings).
You COULD I suppose, since you are having problems. However KS are Tivo programmed, a long time ago, not even sure how well they work on later models, even Roamio (since Roamio and up have a flash drive along with the HD). For sure never tested on 8TB drive (other than Tivo users), heck they came out in the early days so maybe largest drive actually tested by Tivo with them would be a 2TB Premiere drive? I'd just skip 'em, only time I'd run one now is I am having issues. And nice idea to have a copy/clone before trying, got a spare 3TB sitting around?
 

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And nice idea to have a copy/clone before trying, got a spare 3TB sitting around?
We're of the same mind on that, but alas, no spare 3TB. I'll have to see how this 2nd try goes, my understanding is that I could always wipe the problematic 8TB and then do a straight clone from the 3TB and use that to play around with kickstarts. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
 

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Well I'm pretty disappointed, after re-doing everything from scratch with a different 8TB target drive and a better computer I still have a problem playing back a few recordings. I tested one particular show immediately after mfscopy and before the first mfsadd+mfsaddfix and KS 58 rather than waiting until the whole process was complete like before.

This is the error message box I get:

Error playing a recording
The TiVo box was not able to record this program​
because there was no video signal on the channel. You​
may have been trying to record on a channel that you​
don't receive.​
Press SELECT to continue

I get this despite the fact the same show plays fine on the original 3TB source drive. The vast majority of other shows play back fine on the new target drive. When I get this message pressing SELECT locks-up the TiVo, I have to back out of it with the left-arrow key.

So I've ruled out the 8TB drive, the computer hardware, and the KS 58 actually causing this problem. The fact that the problem sticks with the same show(s) lead me to believe something may be wrong on the source recording, bad enough to keep it from being copied but not bad enough to keep it from being played from the original drive.

After this I went ahead and expanded the drive to the full 8TB, and I just started an HDD Raw Copy clone to the other 8TB so I'll have a sacrificial test dummy drive. Based on the fact that KS 58 didn't complete on the other 8TB drive I'll probably try a KS 57 on this one.

Which brings me to my question if anybody knows: It's nice to be able to simply revert back to the original 3TB drive as I'm trying out different things with other drives. I'm counting on kickstarts # 57 & 58 not being destructive to anything else in the Roamio besides the hard drive (i.e., flash memory) that would prevent me from always being able to revert back to the original drive. It would be great if anyone could confirm!
 

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I know you have been running crystal disk on each drive as progression goes on and get all "blue" but have you looked at the actual raw numbers for moved/pending sectors? Drives can be somewhat ok even with some moved sectors but still not ideal. And perhaps more so with a Tivo. I had a couple drives fail in Tivos. They were "all blue" also, but did have moved sectors. Worked ok in computer. Just not in Tivos.

As for errors, I've run into them myself. Same one you just got. Also some programs that could not be deleted or permanently deleted. KS 58 fixed some of the deletion type. But won't run for you. You COULD try cloning the 3 to an 8 (or don't you have a 4TB intermediary drive also?) then run the KS58 on the cloned (not original) drive.
 

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On, the program that says did not record after transfer, maybe try deleting and restoring on the ORIGINAL drive before starting the process. Maybe it will move it somewhere else on the drive after a delete and restore. Maybe even do another couple recordings BEFORE restoring it, shake things up a bit before the restore.
 

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And actually the one of the drives that failed in a Tivo (some moved sectors), it showed all blue as I mentioned. I went ahead and formatted it in the computer. The put it back in the Tivo and let the Tivo format it. Then seems to work. Though would not use permanently in the Tivo, just interesting that it did work after blanking and letting the Tivo reformat, basically starting from scratch.
 

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One final thought (at least for now), did you know if a person has been running their Tivo for a good amount of time the drive will always be COMPLETELY full? May show 75% recordings or whatever, BUT that number does not include recordings in recently deleted. So will always be completely full, UNLESS you go in and permanently delete recordings in the recently deleted folder. If Tivo shows 75% it will be 100% including recently deleted, if you go in and permanently delete all the recently deleted programs then the drive itself will really only be 75% full. When a drive is always running completely full who know what happens when something like a moved sector happens, or any minor error. Always a good idea to clean up that recently deleted folder occasionally to keep the drive under 100% full.
 

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I know you have been running crystal disk on each drive as progression goes on and get all "blue" but have you looked at the actual raw numbers for moved/pending sectors? Drives can be somewhat ok even with some moved sectors but still not ideal. And perhaps more so with a Tivo. I had a couple drives fail in Tivos. They were "all blue" also, but did have moved sectors. Worked ok in computer. Just not in Tivos.
If I'm reading it right the original drive doesn't have any relocated sectors. It's the Raw Values column, right?

Rectangle Font Screenshot Technology Parallel


If that's so, then my new 8TB target drives are OK too.

You COULD try cloning the 3 to an 8 (or don't you have a 4TB intermediary drive also?) then run the KS58 on the cloned (not original) drive.
After exhausting the possibilities with the cloned 8TB my next move was going to be to clone the original 3TB and do as you suggest and run KS 58 on that clone.

On, the program that says did not record after transfer, maybe try deleting and restoring on the ORIGINAL drive before starting the process. Maybe it will move it somewhere else on the drive after a delete and restore. Maybe even do another couple recordings BEFORE restoring it, shake things up a bit before the restore.
Interesting thought. I guess it depends on whether deleting actually moves the file or just flips a bit marking it deleted. Certainly worth a try before doing another mfscopy. It should be noted that once the problem files have been copied over not only can't they be played, they also can't be permanently deleted from the RDP folder. With an 8TB drive they will languish forever.
 
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