[20TIL6]

I've been wondering this for some time. I wonder what the rest of the TiVo community thinks.

It seems to me that a certain group of folks spend a lot of time in the DirecTV/TiVo and DirecTV/HDTiVo forums who have an apparent eagerness in helping anyone onto the DirecTV DVR platforms (specifically the HR20).

Now I know that DirecTV DVR platforms have a community all their own, over at dbstalk. But still, a lot of HR20 talk continues over here. And like I said, it spins up pretty quickly as people come here asking "What should I do regarding DirecTV, HD, and TiVo?"

It would be one thing if the responses were:

Want to keep TiVo? Get a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD, and switch to cable.
Want to keep DirecTV? Go visit dbstalk.com and learn about the HR20.

But what I am seeing is that all the HR20 information, including sign up deals, how to talk to retention, etc. is shared over here. Why?

It makes you wonder. I mean, DirecTV knows that this is a primary source of TiVo information for an important and loyal base of customers. They know that their own DVR plans have created a gap in understanding of how that base would transition to DirecTV HD with the use of a TiVo, or DVR.

So I wonder, is this an organized group sharing this HR20 information? Could this be a DirecTV marketing campaign right under our noses? Wouldn't DirecTV want to be positioned in an area of TiVo/DVR influence?

I wonder what the TiVo community thinks.

 

[Philly Bill]

It's not a conspiracy.

It's people that like to frequent this forum... and have for ages. There's no law that says you can't belong to one forum. There is a lot here besides TIVO stuff.

 

[Billy66]

I wonder what the TiVo community thinks.

That you might need more tin foil for your hat.

 

[20TIL6]

It's not a conspiracy.

It's people that like to frequent this forum... and have for ages. There's no law that says you can't belong to one forum. There is a lot here besides TIVO stuff.

Conspiracy is a word charged with ethical or moral misgivings. I'm just wondering about a valid marketing plan. Ethical issues aside.

Again, this would be a valid marketing plan. Nothing illegal. Would it pass the "headline" test? Meaning, would DirecTV suffer any embarrassment if it was public knowledge as a news item? Maybe.

But corporations are very aware of the messaging capabilities of the Internet, especially a technology company like DirecTV.

I ask myself, does DirecTV have a message that they need to share with a rather important base of their customers? Would traditional marketing methods reach and influence this base to the degree DirecTV desires (transitioning from TiVo to the DirecTV DVR platform)? What are the obstacles? Where does this base go for information about this subject on their own? And, would this source of information be considered more trustworthy than DirecTV's own traditional marketing methods?

 

[Hexerott]

I'm not sure but I do know the HR20 is piece of crud.

 

[RS4]

After reading that article in PC Magazine (I think), it definitely points out Milo's (Craig) mission. Pretty sneaky.

 

[20TIL6]

I've been wondering about this long before Milo showed up. There are a few more that seem to have a mission. Maybe Milo was just the latest recruit, and he's a little less subtle.

Of course it's all speculation on my part.

Anyone who has trumpeted DirecTV or the HR20 within the forums on TiVo community is free to post a reply to this thread. They could simply say "I just like DirecTV and/or the HR20. I am in no way connected (employed, contracted, recruited) with DirecTV. And I have absolutely no knowledge of any organized marketing campaign focused within tivocommunity.com by DirecTV, or anyone else, with the intended purpose of transitioning current TiVo customers onto the DirecTV DVR platform."

I'd be interested in who, and who does not, post a reply.

 

[jimb726]

I have posted in both forums, I must be in the drastic minority because while I liked the TiVo and liked the HR20, to me they are just recorders, I didnt add to my HR10 or my HR20. I just record without using a bunch of advanced features. In my case the decision to switch was 100% because I wanted the HD locals, but I have not regretted it. I kept both running until the HR10 died a couple of months ago and then swapped it out for an HR20 under the protection plan. I dont know about Milo being a shill, I just think he is passionate about the unit as are some of the people here about their TiVo's. But as I said I like to read a lot more than I like to post. But to answer 20TIL6, I love D* and thats why I switched. I would use whatever DVR they provide to allow me to get the content that important to me, TiVo or non-TiVo. Not sure if all this makes sense anyways.

Jim

 

[tfederov]

It's not an organized effort. For the record I owned 5 HR10-250s, an HDVR2, SD-DVR120, SD-DVR80, and an R10. To say I have alterior motives is not only wrong, it's offensive to me. Some of you need to remember that to newbies, any DVR is a TiVo. There's nothing wrong with providing information to these folks over here while also directing them to the sister site dbstalk.com. Milo is not a shill or a DIRECTV employee. He's a very valued member at dbstalk and I consider him a friend. All he's doing is providing information here to folks that might not even know dbstalk exists.

 

[RS4]

It's not an organized effort. For the record I owned 5 HR10-260s, an HDVR2, SD-DVR120, SD-DVR80, and an R10. To say I have alterior motives is not only wrong, it's offensive to me. Some of you need to remember that to newbies, any DVR is a TiVo. There's nothing wrong with providing information to these folks over here while also directing them to the sister site dbstalk.com. Milo is not a shill or a DIRECTV employee. He's a very valued member at dbstalk and I consider him a friend. All he's doing is providing information here to folks that might not even know dbstalk exists.

I certainly don't have a problem with people expressing opinions - everyone knows how I feel about the HR20 and how DirecTV has let us Tivo users down.

But looking at Milo's postings, we see an entirely different motive. It appears he's on a mission to recruit as many Tivo users as possible. For a while, he was daily posting how much the HR10-250 was worth on ebay. He's constantly talking deals - very little about the boxes themselves - only the deals. No, this guy is an AST (astroturfer - i.e. shill).

 

[20TIL6]

It's not an organized effort. For the record I owned 5 HR10-260s, an HDVR2, SD-DVR120, SD-DVR80, and an R10. To say I have alterior motives is not only wrong, it's offensive to me.

Please don't take offense. You are introducing ethics into what is possibly a valid, and legal marketing campaign by DirecTV.

I would be more surprised if DirecTV was not doing something like this. Think of the audience here, the customer base, the information shared.

Still, there are others that I would like to see chime in with thoughts.

 

[tibber]

I certainly don't have a problem with people expressing opinions - everyone knows how I feel about the HR20 and how DirecTV has let us Tivo users down.

But looking at Milo's postings, we see an entirely different motive. It appears he's on a mission to recruit as many Tivo users as possible. For a while, he was daily posting how much the HR10-250 was worth on ebay. He's constantly talking deals - very little about the boxes themselves - only the deals. No, this guy is an AST (astroturfer - i.e. shill).

When reading postings, one always needs to consider the poster's motivations and bias. And one must take into account the whole body of postings, not isolated items here and there.

So my bias: Craig is a very good friend. I've greatly enjoyed every single meeting and conversation. And there have not nearly been enough of them.

I can vouch that he not employed by DIRECTV. But his is yet another amazing person who helps people thru every aspect of his life: work, home, spiritual, and the online community.

Craig's postings mirror that desire to help at every turn. He's had many postings that are tips and tricks of the HR20 and a guide easing people in their transition from tivo to HR20. He's created thought provoking poll and discussions attempting to improve the HR20. And he's been known to very firmly remind DIRECTV of things the HR20 currently lacks while then thanking them for successes when those shortcomings are resolved.

So to dismiss Craig and his body of work as that of a shill seems terribly disingenuous about someone who is working so hard to help everyone.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[HiDefGator]

I have posted in both forums, I must be in the drastic minority because while I liked the TiVo and liked the HR20, to me they are just recorders, I didnt add to my HR10 or my HR20. I just record without using a bunch of advanced features. In my case the decision to switch was 100% because I wanted the HD locals, but I have not regretted it. I kept both running until the HR10 died a couple of months ago and then swapped it out for an HR20 under the protection plan. I dont know about Milo being a shill, I just think he is passionate about the unit as are some of the people here about their TiVo's. But as I said I like to read a lot more than I like to post. But to answer 20TIL6, I love D* and thats why I switched. I would use whatever DVR they provide to allow me to get the content that important to me, TiVo or non-TiVo. Not sure if all this makes sense anyways.

Jim

exactly!

 

[20TIL6]

But to answer 20TIL6, I love D* and thats why I switched. I would use whatever DVR they provide to allow me to get the content that important to me, TiVo or non-TiVo.
Jim

I think there are two camps:

Those that think all DVR's are the same, and the difference is in the digital signal.

Those that think all digital signals are the same, and the difference is in the DVR.

I think we are leaving the former and entering the latter.

Why?

Cable, Sat, FiOS, U-Verse, iTunes, Unbox, Network downloads.... Digital content is becoming available in more ways than ever before, in a sense, the digital pipe is becoming a commodity. I can watch the show Heroes through any of those pipes (well, not iTunes anymore, but you get my point). But in time, the PQ will most likely be HiDef and of equal quality from all of them.

When this happens, I think the way you manage and consume your content no longer is a commodity. The DVR becomes a competitive differentiator.

 

[kmill14]

Why do people always assume others don't know they aren't using a Tivo? Do those same people think they are using an iPhone when in fact it is the freebie they got from T Mobile?

Are we talking about 70-year old grandmothers? Whats the demographic of these people who don't know whats going on with their televisions?

 

[milominderbinder]

I really can only speak for myself, but I know of no one posting here who is employed by DIRECTV or TiVo. I don't even know of anyone getting a special rate on monthly subscriptions. This thread is the first discussion I am aware of to organize any efforts.

If someone asks a question, we should do our best to answer as fully as practical. If they should take a question elsewhere, we should offer that link.

At the heart of this is something we can't control. Right now, subs with DirecTV HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs will need to decide if they want:

A. HD TiVo, but not with DIRECTV
B. DIRECTV HD DVR but not with TiVo
C. DIRECTV TiVo but not with the new HD

Many of us have picked option D: get both B & C. Dozens added the second box for next to nothing with programming credits worth more than the lease payments.

It's the best of both worlds. Why not have it all? It means at least for today, you don't have to decide.

- Craig

 

[TonyD79]

Isn't this poll a violation of some rule or something? Just posting a poll that says that someone may be lying is pretty much accusing them of lying.

Along the lines of asking "When did you stop beating your wife?" or asking someone if they ever were a Communist (which makes others doubt them just by asking).

But if not a violation, it is pretty small minded. And stupid.

 

[terpfan1980]

I'm not sure but I do know the HR20 is piece of crud.

Your opinion, which you are entitled to. Other people may have different opinions, but apparently if they share those opinions here they are looked at as shills for DirecTV or at least are looked at as people that wish ill towards TiVo.

For example there's RS4, Redux, and a host of 'cheer leaders' for TiVo. Are they not equally as bad, if not far worse in their shilling for TiVo and their shouting down of opinions that differ and suggest that (1) the HR20 is a usable DVR and (2) that people that are interested in staying with DirecTV -- for sports programming, for financial reasons, or whatever -- should look out for their own best interests in dealing with DirecTV and potentially leaving Tivo behind??

More information is a good thing. Outright shilling for either company should be frowned upon, but there is no good reason not to hear all sides of the arguments, and get as much information as possible in advance of commiting to DirecTV, or commiting to cable or commiting to TiVo.

The road for TiVo is much less clear, in many ways, (oops, I must be a DirecTV shill or TiVo gloom and doom sayer, or so will sayeth someone like Redux or RS4) now than it has been in the past. Back in late 2000/2001 it was very clear that one of the best ways to get a TiVo based product was to sign up for DirecTV where you'd get state of art equipment that offered dual tuners (before dual tuners were an option in standalone DVRs from most places) and great recording quality thanks to recording of the straight-from-the-satellite stream. (During that 2000/2001 time frame it was also fairly clear that Dish's offerings in the form of the Dishplayer was a hateful Microsoft/Dish combined effort piece of junk that suffered from poor programming and even worse support).

That (the state of the art technology status) was the case again later when the HR20 was released and getting one of those from DirecTV was the best way to get a hi-def TiVo based DVR unit. Again, it pretty much stood alone not just because it was TiVo based, but because it was one of the first DVR systems that recorded hi-def on multiple tuners and it also worked well as an SD DVR to record many hours of SD programming sent via DirecTV.

Sadly some people got what they wished for and Rupert Murdoch and his deathstar conglomerate of companies took over DirecTV and the relationship between TiVo and DirecTV suffered. I would note that TiVo had *many* problems in expanding their user base during the years though, and they left themselves at the mercy (in many ways) of DirecTV as a good sized piece of their subscriber base all came from DirecTV. TiVo had great software and a great product, but they never were able to get it as readily accepted in the cable TV world. It cost too much, the subscription fee was higher for cable and over-the-air antenna users (stupid guide costs!) versus DirecTV. TiVo's profit margins remained low, if not actually continuing to operate a loss.

Stock prices for TiVo have stayed down in the dumps, and the company -- quite frankly -- seemed to be one with a dim future. Things are looking better now in ways, but at the same time, also quite cloudy.

Switched Digital Video is a mess. Problems with do not record protection bits is a mess (see threads in the forums here for discussion of same related to MLB Extra Innings games recordings by one customer). Cable card support from cable companies (who never want to cooperate with their customers anyway) is still a mess.

And DirecTV, well... DirecTV just hasn't decided to go back with TiVo with full force and effort at this time. Instead they are working on their own boxes that compete with TiVo and offer all of the profit margins for DVR service back entirely to DirecTV rather than having to pay anything to TiVo.

DirecTV could make new deals with TiVo and I'd be at the front of pack celebrating such happenings. So far it just isn't coming. Meanwhile more hi-def content is coming (delayed slightly, but coming very soon) and content is king. If you don't have enough to compete against everyone else, you'll be left behind as customers flock to other choices like cable and FiOS.

So, is it wrong to have discussion here about other choices for DirecTV users -- many of which flock to this site because they were DirecTV customers that bought TiVo based receivers? I don't think so. They come here because they have friends here, because they trust the level of expertise here, and the diverse opinions here. They may or may not know about dbstalk.com or they may recognize that dbstalk get's more than their share of people that love to slam DirecTV and they feel that their requests get lost in the noise.

Let those people come here and ask questions and get answers -- from all sides -- so that everyone learns and everyone can make the best decisions for themselves.

More information is good. Less opinions and labelling of people as shills would be awfully nice though. If that doesn't happen, then in all likelyhood the moderators are gonna slap some people silly here for being rude, obnoxious, and disrespectful to other forum members and eventually the site dries up for lack of users that will help others.

 

[terpfan1980]

I certainly don't have a problem with people expressing opinions - everyone knows how I feel about the HR20 and how DirecTV has let us Tivo users down.

But looking at Milo's postings, we see an entirely different motive. It appears he's on a mission to recruit as many Tivo users as possible. For a while, he was daily posting how much the HR10-250 was worth on ebay. He's constantly talking deals - very little about the boxes themselves - only the deals. No, this guy is an AST (astroturfer - i.e. shill).

And you are an offensive and rude labeller of individuals that constantly labels people as shills.

Which is more offensive and more wrong?

 

[20TIL6]

Isn't this poll a violation of some rule or something? Just posting a poll that says that someone may be lying is pretty much accusing them of lying.

Along the lines of asking "When did you stop beating your wife?" or asking someone if they ever were a Communist (which makes others doubt them just by asking).

But if not a violation, it is pretty small minded. And stupid.

Again, I'm not bringing ethics into this. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I'm just asking fellow members if such a marketing campaign is plausible, and if they think one like it might be going on.

People can vote, people can chime in and say "I'm not working for DirecTV, I just like the HR20."

"Sock Puppet", "Astroturfing". I just learned those terms today. Seems small mindedness and stupidity is spreading these days.

I certianly did not intend to violate any posting rules. I really don't think I have.