[wprager]

Edit: thread title is wrong; it should be E02.

Will add notes point form as I watch:
- Mikkel and Ines are in protective custody
- Knew it! Stranger Jonas has no recollection of traveling to the alt world; either amnesia or another Jonas
- Peter is looking for a blonde woman and a teenage boy (Charlotte and Noah?), but then he sees Noah and tells him to go away? And Peter isn't long for this world
- I still can't believe this clueless, lost-puppy Stranger Jonas becomes ruthless Adam;
- Katarina goes to the mental hospital to find Ulrich and runs into her mother!
- so the medallion used to belong to Katarina's mother (Jonas found it on the beach and gave it to Martha; but somehow Hannah also has it - something this all relates to the woman in the lake story that Bartozs brought up)
- Ulrich/Katharina reunion was warmer than I expected
- the Triplets kill Claudia's secretary, Jasmin; why?
- is Tronte (Ulrich and Mads' father) Regina's father - sounds like he is, otherwise why would he kill her
- so Charlotte went to 2053 with her daughter/mother (unlike the time that Helge/Jonas touched she went to different times)
-

 

[wprager]

Clearly we have two different Jonases. If not more! Stranger Jonas is in 1888 building the time machine for Sic Mundus (who have been around since before Adam, it would appear). This guy had no recollection of what the original Jonas, who is now in the alt world, experienced. I find it very hard to believe that *that* Jonas becomes Adam. Maybe there's a third Jonas.

 

[wprager]

I think I'll wait to watch E03 until I've read some recaps. I found one recap of E01 and it was missing a lot of stuff that even *I* caught. Need a nerdier recap.

 

[wprager]

One of the recaps I'm reading says that Peter was looking for a young girl with red hair and not blonde woman. I've got to pay better attention - he was taking about Franziska and Magnus (but does he even know about them? )

 

[wprager]

Just noticed the thread title says E12 instead of E02. I can't seem to be able to change it. How do I contact a mod to do it?

 

[wprager]

By the way, careful if you are looking for recaps. There is a YouTube recap of the S3 *finale* I almost accidentally watched.

 

[Rob Helmerichs]

Clearly we have two different Jonases. If not more! Stranger Jonas is in 1888 building the time machine for Sic Mundus (who have been around since before Adam, it would appear). This guy had no recollection of what the original Jonas, who is now in the alt world, experienced. I find it very hard to believe that *that* Jonas becomes Adam. Maybe there's a third Jonas.

I get the feeling that the interjection of alt-Martha into the original world is new...i.e., the loop has been altered.

I froze-frame on the dual genealogy on the floor towards the end...nothing surprising (once I got used to the odd way it's laid out, with parents sometimes above but sometimes below their children), but interesting to see it all laid out like that.

 

[wprager]

Well, Elizabeth is both the daughter and mother of Charlotte, so there may well be others - could that explain the inconsistent placements?

 

[Rob Helmerichs]

Well, Elizabeth is both the daughter and mother of Charlotte, so there may well be others - could that explain the inconsistent placements?

No, there just isn't room to put them all in in the conventional way, so in some cases, the ancestors come in from below instead of above.

Once you figure out what they're doing, it's pretty clear.

 

[Family]

Another solid episode.

They have enough possibilities to have made several more seasons IMO. They can go to any moment any time they wish, and add an interesting detail to any story.

 

[john4200]

is Tronte (Ulrich and Mads' father) Regina's father - sounds like he is, otherwise why would he kill her
-

Yes, you can see it in the family tree floor mosaic. Tronte+Claudia = Regina

 

[john4200]

Well, Elizabeth is both the daughter and mother of Charlotte, so there may well be others - could that explain the inconsistent placements?

Yes, there are others. It gets really messy. Hanno Tauber is Noah, obviously (almost anagrams of each other). We have Hanno+Elisabeth = Charlotte who gives birth to Elisabeth, but we also have Silja+Bartosz = Hanno & Agnes. And then we have Agnes+??? = Tronte. The ??? may be from another world and apparently fathers both world's Trontes upon both world's Agneses. And of course Tronte is Ulrich's father (AND Regina's father) and Egon is Silja's father with Hannah. So Silja is Jonas' half-sister, but also his great great great grandmother (by way of Milkkel, Ulrich, Tronte, Agnes, Silja)

But that is not all. Not by a longshot. Silja's father is Egon, which makes Claudia her half-sister. And Claudia is Regina's mother who in turn gives birth to Bartosz who mates with Silja (who is the daughter of Bartosz's grandfather Egan) to produce Agnes who gives birth to Tronte who mates with Claudia to have Regina.

I guess we can simplify that. The Elisabeth loop is short and goes Elisabeth to Charlotte and back to Elisabeth.

The Agnes loop is longer. Agnes, Tronte, Regina, Bartosz, Agnes.

I guess that is all the complete loops. The Silja thing is not a loop as far as I can tell. Just inbreeding. She had children with her father's great grandson. And each of her children (Hanno and Agnes) ended up as participants in a complete loop (Agnes more directly than Hanno). With genes like that, it is surprising that Charlotte turned out okay.

We know Martha is Jonas' Aunt by way of Mikkel. But we also have Martha, Ulrich, Tronte, Agnes, Silja, Hannah. So Martha is the great great great granddaughter of Jonas' mother. So Jonas is related to Martha through both his father and his mother.

We also see that Bartosz is Martha's great great grandfather, and Magnus' as well. And Bartosz is Franziska's great grandfather.

Hannah is Ulrich's great great grandmother. Charlotte's Aunt Agnes (her father Hanno's sister) is Ulrich's grandmother. Ulrich does seem to be attracted to his relatives, except for Katharina. He should have stuck with her.

I wonder if the missing name on the tree (Tronte's father by Agnes) will turn out to be the guy with the scar on his upper lip (is that supposed to be a cleft lip? or just a wound?)

 

[wprager]

Are all of those from the diagram on the floor or spoilers? Guess I'll have to go back and look.

Martha who was Jonas' aunt is dead. Alt Martha is not related to Jonas directly (different worlds).

 

[john4200]

Are all of those from the diagram on the floor or spoilers? Guess I'll have to go back and look.

Martha who was Jonas' aunt is dead. Alt Martha is not related to Jonas directly (different worlds).

Of course they are from the family tree floor mosaic.

Since the Marthas look identical, they likely have the exact same DNA, which is what we are really talking about when looking at the family tree. Also, how can you know they are not related? The whole point of that diagram is that some unknown father apparently mated with both Agneses to produce a Tronte in each world. Which would mean that both Marthas and Mikkels at least share the genes inherited from that guy.

 

[wprager]

I said not *directly* related. The genes which determine outward appearance constitute a fraction of the whole. They don't have to be identical at all.

 

[john4200]

I said not *directly* related. The genes which determine outward appearance constitute a fraction of the whole. They don't have to be identical at all.

First of all, the family trees are exactly the same except for Mikkel not having any children. All the people look identical. The most likely explanation is that they have identical DNA. Sure it is possible only the appearance genes are identical, but that is unlikely. When you hear hoofbeats behind you, do not think zebra!

Second of all, you conveniently ignored what I wrote showing that they ARE directly related. They have a common ancestor.

 

[wprager]

I don't see any lines the two sides except at the infinity symbol. Therefore there is not (yet) a direct ancestor of Jonas and alt-Martha.

The appearance of people in mirror universes is most likely just there for the viewer (and to keep budget down). We've all seen plenty of examples of motor universes with identical looking people who are vastly different in every other way (Michelle Yeoh in Discovery, JK Simmons in Counterparts, many others). I don't think the DNA angle is important in mirror universe stories.

 

[john4200]

I don't see any lines the two sides except at the infinity symbol. Therefore there is not (yet) a direct ancestor of Jonas and alt-Martha.

The infinity symbol represents the common ancestor. It is a male who mates with both Agneses to produce Trontes. There is no "yet". It obviously already happened. There is just no name given in the family tree.

 

[wprager]

Here's a decent recap:
https://decider.com/2020/06/26/dark-season-2-recap/