[UCLABB]

I always dread turning on the TV and seeing I have a message from TiVo. A month ago I got the message that a channel was deleted. Uh, no, it hasn’t been. This isn’t the first time this has happened which is why I dread seeing a message from TiVo. I have no idea why TiVo deletes a channel without verification. Of course you can’t have a pass work or even record a specific program when there is no guide data. Only way to do it us with a manual recording.
Usually after filing the lineup form it takes about three or four business days for the fix. It has now been almost a month. I emailed them again today with the case number. The response was quick- “we are working on it”.

 

[NorthAlabama]

I have no idea why TiVo deletes a channel without verification.

they can't, the request must come from the station, either directly, or through an affiliate program - that said, mistakes are often made.

Usually after filing the lineup form it takes about three or four business days for the fix. It has now been almost a month. I emailed them again today with the case number. The response was quick- "we are working on it".

this is when i begin calling/emailing daily.

 

[UCLABB]

they can't, the request must come from the station, either directly, or through an affiliate program - that said, mistakes are often made.

this is when i begin calling/emailing daily.

Sure they can. I myself have requested changes that have been made. I should have noted I am talking about cable lineups. These are set by the cable company, not stations. Usually the screwup has been getting the wrong feed, East versus West. For some reason cable nets will use a mix of feeds even when logically you'd would think if you're on the west coast, you'd get West feeds, but it's a mix for some reason. I once had every East feed incorrectly changed to West- nearly two dozen channels. Took quite some time to get it straightened out.

 

[NorthAlabama]

Sure they can. I myself have requested changes that have been made. I should have noted I am talking about cable lineups. These are set by the cable company, not stations. Usually the screwup has been getting the wrong feed, East versus West. For some reason cable nets will use a mix of feeds even when logically you'd would think if you're on the west coast, you'd get West feeds, but it's a mix for some reason. I once had every East feed incorrectly changed to West- nearly two dozen channels. Took quite some time to get it straightened out.

no, they can't. tivo cannot make any changes to a station lineup, broadcast or otherwise, without the stations consent - legally - if it disagrees with their third party verification, but a time shift is not a lineup change, and neither are guide errors made by tivo that need to be corrected. this is why tivo relies on a third party for lineup verification. that doesn't mean that tivo always inputs the data accurately, or that they understand which markets receive which lineups when looking at the data - tivo makes these mistakes all the time.

my biggest gripe is my guide has an incorrect call sign for a local broadcast station - it lists the call sign for the primary station in birmingham which has the same program listings, but a different call sign than our local affiliate. after a back and forth with the station and tivo, it appears that tivo chooses to use the incorrect call sign because it works better with their data system, and since the listings are accurate, and agree with nielsen, there's nothing to be done except to live with it.

 

[UCLABB]

no, they can't. tivo cannot make any changes to a station lineup, broadcast or otherwise, without the stations consent - legally - if it disagrees with their third party verification, but a time shift is not a lineup change, and neither are guide errors made by tivo that need to be corrected. this is why tivo relies on a third party for lineup verification. that doesn't mean that tivo always inputs the data accurately, or that they understand which markets receive which lineups when looking at the data - tivo makes these mistakes all the time.

my biggest gripe is my guide has an incorrect call sign for a local broadcast station - it lists the call sign for the primary station in birmingham which has the same program listings, but a different call sign than our local affiliate. after a back and forth with the station and tivo, it appears that tivo chooses to use the incorrect call sign because it works better with their data system, and since the listings are accurate, and agree with nielsen, there's nothing to be done except to live with it.

I don't think we are communicating here. I'm talking about a cable lineup, you are talking OTA I guess.

 

[NorthAlabama]

I don't think we are communicating here. I'm talking about a cable lineup, you are talking OTA I guess.

nope, i'm talking both. channel lineup info is proprietary, and the content cannot be altered by tivo without permission, broadcast or cable. when tivo makes a mistake by listing an east coast lineup for a west coast channel, that's tivo channel guide error of the time zone, not a change to the programs in the channel lineup itself - tivo's guide is wrong, not the station's lineup, and that can be changed because it's tivo's mistake.

my complaint was about a broadcast channel, though, you're right - our guide is one letter off on the call sign, and it annoys me every time i see it in the guide.

 

[cwoody222]

Sure they can. I myself have requested changes that have been made.

When you request a change, they verify the info you say is correct before making the change by contacting the local station and/or cable company.

That's why it can take multiple days and why the guide errors form online asks you for cable company contact info.

 

[UCLABB]

nope, i'm talking both. channel lineup info is proprietary, and the content cannot be altered by tivo without permission, broadcast or cable. when tivo makes a mistake by listing an east coast lineup for a west coast channel, that's tivo channel guide error of the time zone, not a change to the programs in the channel lineup itself - tivo's guide is wrong, not the station's lineup, and that can be changed because it's tivo's mistake.

my complaint was about a broadcast channel, though, you're right - our guide is one letter off on the call sign, and it annoys me every time i see it in the guide.

C'mon now. How did the channel get deleted to begin with? You may think it requires permission, but my experience with countless screwups by TiVo tells me differently. Numerous times they've changed to the wrong feed. Numerous times they have deleted a channel that was still in the lineup. Hell, one time I made a mistake on the form when I was requesting multiple feed changes and they changed it to my incorrect feed. I had to submit it again to correct it. Maybe they SHOULD be confirming changes- and that would certainly reduce or eliminate the screwups, but you have to think with so many problems, they aren't doing it. (BTW, I am not talking about program info, that is an entirely different subject.)

 

[dlfl]

Does it really matter much how incorrect guide data occurs? It is what it is.

Regarding how many labor hours TiVo devotes to getting correct data, I think you are doomed to see this get worse and worse. It’s like a pyramid scheme. Funds for this labor have to come from selling lifetime subs (or whatever it’s called now) and those sales are dwindling. That is, unless you are prepared to believe that TiVo has been putting a portion of lifetime sub sales revenue into some kind of trust fund that will keep paying for guide data preparation even after the revenue goes away.

 

[cwoody222]

TiVo employees don’t even add/delete channels to the lineup.

The lineups are maintained by a separate company, Rovi.

Rovi was TiVo’s parent company so they’re related but actually TiVo employees don’t edit the guide.

If you see an incorrect guide issue, that issue also extends to other places that use the Rovi guide.

So things like lifetime service fee revenue have NOTHING to do with this.

 

[dlfl]

TiVo employees don't even add/delete channels to the lineup.

The lineups are maintained by a separate company, Rovi.

Rovi was TiVo's parent company so they're related but actually TiVo employees don't edit the guide.

If you see an incorrect guide issue, that issue also extends to other places that use the Rovi guide.

So things like lifetime service fee revenue have NOTHING to do with this.

You are welcome to your opinion, but Rovi can't supply this data without being paid to do it and TiVo is getting less able to supply their portion of Rovi's guide data-related labor costs. It's always about money in the real world of business unless you think Rovi is a charity.

 

[cwoody222]

You are welcome to your opinion, but Rovi can't supply this data without being paid to do it and TiVo is getting less able to supply their portion of Rovi's guide data-related labor costs. It's always about money in the real world of business unless you think Rovi is a charity.

Rovi has multiple products/services and multiple customers. TiVo is but one customer of one product/service and pays Rovi a contracted rate.

Drawing a direct line like you did from lifetime subs to Rovi "labor" and categorizing TiVo as "supply their portion of ... labor costs" is massively misleading. It's not as if TiVo's consumer DVR revenues are funneled over into Rovi's balance sheet.

TiVo used to purchase guide data from Tribune Media Services before they switched to Rovi (because Rovi purchased them). I guess TMS has gone out of business now since TiVo stopped subsidizing their labor costs?

 

[UCLABB]

TiVo employees don't even add/delete channels to the lineup.

The lineups are maintained by a separate company, Rovi.

Rovi was TiVo's parent company so they're related but actually TiVo employees don't edit the guide.

If you see an incorrect guide issue, that issue also extends to other places that use the Rovi guide.

So things like lifetime service fee revenue have NOTHING to do with this.

This isn't about maintaining the guide. It's the lineup that is sent to one's TiVo. This lineup is sent by TiVo! In my latest case, I was messaged (by TiVo!) that the DIY network has been deleted from my lineup, i.e. Spectrum is no longer carrying it. And, it was deleted from my channel list and even if I re-checked it, no guide data was available. This isn't an Experi/Rovi issue. TVGuide (which gets its data from Experi/Rovi) for my area still shows DYI on Spectrum.
In sum, this IS is a TiVo issue and is an issue that is resolved by TiVo with TiVo staff.

 

[cwoody222]

This isn't about maintaining the guide. It's the lineup that is sent to one's TiVo. This lineup is sent by TiVo! In my latest case, I was messaged (by TiVo!) that the DIY network has been deleted from my lineup, i.e. Spectrum is no longer carrying it. And, it was deleted from my channel list and even if I re-checked it, no guide data was available. This isn't an Experi/Rovi issue. TVGuide (which gets its data from Experi/Rovi) for my area still shows DYI on Spectrum.
In sum, this IS is a TiVo issue and is an issue that is resolved by TiVo with TiVo staff.

Sorry, you're wrong.

Rovi maintains the channel list (which channels are in which lineups) and the guide data (what shows are on which times).

Further, if TiVo had removed the channel from your lineup you would not have been able to re-check it. It would have not been there at all. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

When you contact TiVo and say "DIY is removed but it's still part of the lineup" they contact Spectrum to confirm and then contact Rovi to correct the issue.

 

[Larsenv]

I had a problem with the HD versions of the local channels in my dorm not getting any guide data, as they were mapped to numbers not matching the cable provider (Suddenlink, which in my dorm did not require a CableCARD).

I filled out a request with TiVo - eventually after a couple weeks they said they "fixed" it, when they actually just changed a few channels. None of the local channels were fixed...

I was so annoyed with this that I tried using an antenna and mounted it terribly in my dorm - my roommate said "just use Netflix", which still makes me cringe to this day. Why would I replace my TiVo with Netflix? I took off the antenna since the reception sucked.

I never found a solution because I moved out and am not coming back there. (don't go to college during the middle of a pandemic)

 

[UCLABB]

Sorry, you're wrong.

Rovi maintains the channel list (which channels are in which lineups) and the guide data (what shows are on which times).

Further, if TiVo had removed the channel from your lineup you would not have been able to re-check it. It would have not been there at all. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

When you contact TiVo and say "DIY is removed but it's still part of the lineup" they contact Spectrum to confirm and then contact Rovi to correct the issue.

Look, I know what I saw. I got a message from TiVo that channel 840, DIYHD, was removed from my lineup. I don't think anyone but TiVo can send a message to my box. I tuned to 840 and it was there, still is, but with no title info. I went to channel list and re-checked it, but of course that didn't really change anything.

There is nothing wrong with the Rovi info. You can go to tvguide, info supplied by Rovi, and DYI is listed just fine for Spectrum and my zip code. This is more or less TiVo simply removing it from my guide data, maybe just by my zip code, I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how things work, but TiVo must have a data base of lineups for each zip code that it downloads to one's box when you do a guided setup. My guess is that they removed it from that data base. Why the channel number is still there with no program data, I don't know.
So, just don't tell me I am wrong. I've played around with TiVo on these same issues many times and have a pretty good feel for how it works, maybe not how it should work.

 

[UCLABB]

Oh, I just remembered that a few years ago TiVo made wholesale changes, all wrong, to my lineup one day. It was so bad I was forced to re-run guided setup using a zip code in another city. I used that until tivo got things straightened out for my zip code.

 

[cwoody222]

Look, I know what I saw. I got a message from TiVo that channel 840, DIYHD, was removed from my lineup. I don't think anyone but TiVo can send a message to my box. I tuned to 840 and it was there, still is, but with no title info. I went to channel list and re-checked it, but of course that didn't really change anything.

There is nothing wrong with the Rovi info. You can go to tvguide, info supplied by Rovi, and DYI is listed just fine for Spectrum and my zip code. This is more or less TiVo simply removing it from my guide data, maybe just by my zip code, I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how things work, but TiVo must have a data base of lineups for each zip code that it downloads to one's box when you do a guided setup. My guess is that they removed it from that data base. Why the channel number is still there with no program data, I don't know.
So, just don't tell me I am wrong. I've played around with TiVo on these same issues many times and have a pretty good feel for how it works, maybe not how it should work.

Just because you got a message on your TiVo doesn't mean TiVo made the change.

LINEUP CHANGES ARE MADE BY ROVI, who is TiVo's exclusive lineup provider.

Furthermore, if the channel was there for you to re-check, it was not removed.

What you are saying doesn't make sense and you clearly don't understand how TiVo's guide data works.

Just because TV Guide's website still had the channel proves nothing. Clearly removing it from your lineup was an error. Maybe TiVo processed the change before it was caught. Maybe the change was only made to their data customers and not web customers (Rovi sells multiple products of different types of data/feeds), maybe there was a processing error on TiVo's end. Lots of possibilities.

But if you think a TiVo employee hit a big delete button next to "DIY" in a massive channel lineup database they control, you're wrong.

 

[cwoody222]

Oh, I just remembered that a few years ago TiVo made wholesale changes, all wrong, to my lineup one day. It was so bad I was forced to re-run guided setup using a zip code in another city. I used that until tivo got things straightened out for my zip code.

When this happens it's usually a cable operator prematurely making changes or applying changes to wrong geographic regions.

ie: they have changes taking place in the future but they push the changes out to the listing companies (Rovi) early.

Again, this would be an issue with Rovi's data which TiVo is simply downstream from.

 

[UCLABB]

When this happens it's usually a cable operator prematurely making changes or applying changes to wrong geographic regions.

ie: they have changes taking place in the future but they push the changes out to the listing companies (Rovi) early.

Again, this would be an issue with Rovi's data which TiVo is simply downstream from.

Kinda funny that when I wrongly reported a feed that was wrong to TiVo, they made the change. Why was this not caught by Rovi or Spectrum if TiVo runs it by them?

I and others have been asked by TiVo to supply copies of our cable company's lineup to verify what we are saying.
I'm not going to argue with you further because that was not my point to begin with. My OP was simply pointing out how long it was taking to correct a very simple problem. I have in the past almost invariably had issues taken care of within five business days.