Castle Season 4 Premiere 9/19/11 "Rise"

6182 Views 74 Replies 34 Participants Last post by Rob Helmerichs, Dec 3, 2011

jlb

Discussion Starter · Sep 20, 2011

I thought this episode was great for so many reasons. I need to review my thoughts before I can get them down succinctly.

I thought the acting was really good. I like where things are going to go.....

Just in case anyone is interested, I downloaded the sample from "Heat Rises" to my Kindle. The following is the Dedication that was mentioned but not revealed in the episode:

To Captain Roy Montgomery, NYPD.
He made a stand and taught me all I
need to know
about bravery and character.

And the trekker in me loved seeing Michael Dorn!

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Rob Helmerichs

· #2 · Sep 20, 2011

I'm not so sure I like where things are going to go...they've fallen into the common trap of a hit show with great chemistry between the leads, where they either have to pull the trigger or keep coming up with ways to keep them apart. Obviously they're going the latter route, but I HATE when they do that...it always ends up seeming contrived sooner rather than later, and sooner seems to be coming. That is, it already feels like the characters are acting in ways designed by the writers to keep them apart instead of how the characters would behave.

I hope they can pull it off, but last night seemed very awkward and contrived....that aspect of it, that is.

jlb

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 20, 2011

Point well noted. I guess I should have provided more about potential versus can they pull it off. But I love the characters enough that I think it will work no matter how they go with it......

Rob Helmerichs

· #4 · Sep 20, 2011

jlb said:
But I love the characters enough that I think it will work no matter how they go with it......

They do have quite the advantage in that regard!

lew

· #5 · Sep 20, 2011

Rob Helmerichs said:
I'm not so sure I like where things are going to go...they've fallen into the common trap of a hit show with great chemistry between the leads, where they either have to pull the trigger or keep coming up with ways to keep them apart. Obviously they're going the latter route, but I HATE when they do that...it always ends up seeming contrived sooner rather than later, and sooner seems to be coming. That is, it already feels like the characters are acting in ways designed by the writers to keep them apart instead of how the characters would behave.

I hope they can pull it off, but last night seemed very awkward and contrived....that aspect of it, that is.

The one armed killer wasn't found until the end of the last episode. The leads in

JAG

spoiler tags for the nazis didn't get together until the end of the last episode. Unfortunately this may be the way Castle is going.

Castle doesn't have an ensemble cast. The life expectancy of these kinds of shows, even hit shows, seems to be 5-7 years. The expected run of the show, best scenario, is reaching the halfway point.

JMO, Castle is a significantly better show then Chuck. It might be a bad example...Chuck did a good job pacing the growth of the relationship between the stars. Castle uses the summer break as an opportunity to put a break between the stars. Cools off the relationship and lets them re-boot it the following season.

ADG

· #6 · Sep 20, 2011

Rob Helmerichs said:
where they either have to pull the trigger or keep coming up with ways to keep them apart. Obviously they're going the latter route,.

Based on a write-up in TV Guide this week, that's not necessarily the case.

LoadStar

· #7 · Sep 20, 2011

And (although this may be a mild spoiler, I don't care) Andrew Marlowe has said several times that he intends to get them together, and he doesn't want to drag it out too long. Now, one might argue that he already has, but that's a matter of opinion.

That said, I think we're rapidly reaching the breaking point of "will they or won't they." I think now that Castle has allowed himself to say those three words to Beckett, and with the audience knowing that she heard him say them, I think they'll almost have to progress the relationship in the next season or so.

jlb

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 20, 2011

Unless of course they move the Island.....

Oh shoot....wrong show.

jlb

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 20, 2011

I think they need to work in a blooper line from season 3 in....check out the 2:25 mark....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNee8BQ3lXU[/media]

Ereth

· #10 · Sep 20, 2011

I thought it was slow, uninteresting and predictable.

I was very disappointed. The whole show just seemed flat, like they were going through the motions without actually having any of the magic of the previous season.

Honora

· #11 · Sep 20, 2011

LoadStar said:
And (although this may be a mild spoiler, I don't care) Andrew Marlowe has said several times that he intends to get them together, and he doesn't want to drag it out too long. Now, one might argue that he already has, but that's a matter of opinion.

That said, I think we're rapidly reaching the breaking point of "will they or won't they." I think now that Castle has allowed himself to say those three words to Beckett, and with the audience knowing that she heard him say them, I think they'll almost have to progress the relationship in the next season or so.

Beckett told Castle about "the wall" inside her, which keeps her from having the kind of relationship she wants. The unspoken part was "with him". That's why she's seeing Doctor Worf. She's trying to break down the wall so they can have the relationship that they both obviously want.

murgatroyd

· #12 · Sep 20, 2011

lew said:
Castle doesn't have an ensemble cast.

Rob Helmerichs

· #13 · Sep 20, 2011

murgatroyd said:

Yeah, that was a pretty bizarre interpretation of the show...

lew

· #14 · Sep 20, 2011

Poor choice of wording. Shows like ER and L&O were able to maintain longevity by "freshening" up the cast. ER lasted for years after George left. Years after Noah left. Castle has two stars and a supporting cast. I question if Castle could continue without Nathan and Stana.

john4200

· #15 · Sep 20, 2011

Ereth said:
I was very disappointed. The whole show just seemed flat, like they were going through the motions without actually having any of the magic of the previous season.

I thought it was more heavy-handed than in the past. The new boss is a caricature -- egotistical, poor-people skills, incompetent. I expect they plan to develop her a little to show that she is nice on the inside or something similarly cliched.

Also, after Beckett sent Castle away out of the hospital room, I thought there was a pretty good chance that she was lying about not remembering, but I was not sure, and it seemed like that subtle point would develop over several episodes. Instead, they beat us over the head with it at the end.

Worst of all is the continuing thing about "protecting" Beckett by not telling her about the person or people who are out to get her. That was bad last season, and worse this season. It reminds me of how TV cops are so quick to give up their weapons when a bad guy takes a hostage. Stupid. Anyone evil enough to threaten someone's life as a hostage cannot be trusted. No one with any sense makes a deal with a person like that.

Ereth

· #16 · Sep 20, 2011

john4200 said:
Also, after Beckett sent Castle away out of the hospital room, I thought there was a pretty good chance that she was lying about not remembering, but I was not sure, and it seemed like that subtle point would develop over several episodes. Instead, they beat us over the head with it at the end.

Stana Katic is an excellent actress. Watch the scene on the swing again. When she tells Castle that "it wasn't enough" she gives him a look, she's waiting for him. But he is looking away and doesn't see it.

That was confirmation for me that she remembered. The scene with the Psychiatrist was too heavy handed for my tastes.

Amnesia

· #17 · Sep 20, 2011

Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but anyone else catch the Mal-ism at about 37 minutes in?

Castle: Kate, I saw you. When you saw that gun you froze.
Beckett: It's nothing.
Castle: Your hand was shaking---that's not nothing.

That line instantly reminded be of Firefly and sure enough at the end of the episode "Serenity", Mal is talking to Simon and says:

Mal: I don't know how bright you are, top three percent, but you ain't weak and that's not nothing.

mattack

· #18 · Sep 21, 2011

jlb said:
And the trekker in me loved seeing Michael Dorn!

...you're forgetting Penny Johnson. (OK, I had to just look her up, but I recognized her as Sisko's girfriend->wife immediately.)

I thought it was VERY obvious from the beginning that she was faking that she didn't hear Castle say he loved her.

I like this show, but it goes along a lot like Monk or the Dead Zone.. really slow, not much happens, fairly obvious plots for the most part.

laria

· #19 · Sep 21, 2011

I have watched enough soap operas and dramas to have expected that whole scenario where she claims to not remember what happen when she really does before he even entered the hospital room.

I found the whole segue from him getting the phone call from the guy who got Montgomery's package to him telling his mother that he needs to keep Kate out of it really weird. We had to go back and make sure we didn't fast forward too far and miss a scene.

Idearat

· #20 · Sep 21, 2011

laria said:
I found the whole segue from him getting the phone call from the guy who got Montgomery's package to him telling his mother that he needs to keep Kate out of it really weird. We had to go back and make sure we didn't fast forward too far and miss a scene.

I backed up also, thinking my mind had wandered and missed something. They seemed to just jump ahead, figuring we knew how the scene would have happened.

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