[NashGuy]

Actually, for several years now Comcast has been offering the gateway free of charge, typically on HSI plans above the lowest speed tiers. On bundled deals, there was once even a $10 discount if you waived the free gateway, although I don't know if that feature is still around.

Around here, the gateway has typically only been included on an ongoing basis if you opted for XFi, which also waived the data cap. I'm sure they've thrown in the gateway at no extra cost for the first year or two on a promo basis, but after that the rental fee kicked in.

 

[NashGuy]

5,000 is a pretty low target. We’ve been around for 27 years and have shipped our software with over 60 million devices including ATSC 1.0, IPTV, CableCARD and Cable DTA. See https://bitrouter.com/product-gallery/. We showed our ATSC 3.0 software working with the TiVo Bolt at NAB 2019. See https://bitrouter.com/news-articles...gateway-at-nab-2019-with-proof-of-concept-demo-targeting-tivos-bolt-ota-player/. ZapperBox uses the same software that we showed working with the TiVo Bolt. More questions are welcome.

How many ZapperBox units have you sold so far?

 

[cwoody222]

I just got off of the line from Comcrap cable card support 877 405 2298 and they told me in no uncertain terms that cable card services will be ended on 25 Oct. I had to ask the question 4 times and have the person check with their supervisor. I'm leaving Xfinity. Now decide what to do.

How much you wanna bet all 4 people and the supervisor were wrong?

Did you ask them why they specifically have said that on 10/24 all that’s changing is that new and current customers can’t receive new cards?

Why did they bother to put out a statement about 10/24 if it wasn’t the whole story?

Or, the reps were wrong. All 4 of them.

This seems more likely to be the truth:

https://www.tivocommunity.com/threads/cablecard-comcast.594703/page-9?post_id=12898692#post-12898692

 

[Bert Hill]

I asked via the business team about whether cablecard service will continue and they just reiterated what was in that post. I asked them to send me clarification because I'm concerned that there is a change rippling rippling through their system. The person who I talked to thought "it probably would still work until it doesn't..." It also possible they are preparing for major changes to their network... Given the uncertainty, I'm going to start moving off of them.

 

[shulercox]

How much you wanna bet all 4 people and the supervisor were wrong?

Did you ask them why they specifically have said that on 10/24 all that’s changing is that new and current customers can’t receive new cards?

Why did they bother to put out a statement about 10/24 if it wasn’t the whole story?

Or, the reps were wrong. All 4 of them.

This seems more likely to be the truth:

https://www.tivocommunity.com/threads/cablecard-comcast.594703/page-9?post_id=12898692#post-12898692

Spectrum has a huge problem with internal communications, and it seems Comcast does too.

 

[Gopal Miglani]

How many ZapperBox units have you sold so far?

We do not give out sales numbers but the 5,000 number is a very low bar. The m1 has been selling for over two years. The m2 and m3 (Zapper Mini) will start shipping in November. We're looking at adding a small form factor NEXTGEN TV model with built in DVR too.

 

[Pokemon_Dad]

We do not give out sales numbers but the 5,000 number is a very low bar. The m1 has been selling for over two years. The m2 and m3 (Zapper Mini) will start shipping in November. We're looking at adding a small form factor NEXTGEN TV model with built in DVR too.

Comskip would be nice. Any plans for that?

 

[Gopal Miglani]

Comskip would be nice. Any plans for that?

Yes. Planning to add commercial skip. No date yet.

 

[mattack]

well, they like going after big tech companies, so it seems like the same kind of thing..

 

[emuman100]

If you think that cord cutting is going to slow down, much less stop, you are not living in objective reality. It is going to continue to increase as the linear pay TV market continues to go down the death spiral. The content left, the viewers are leaving, now the ad dollars are going to follow, which continues the trend.

https://www.nexttv.com/news/with-di...-shrinking-at-nearly-17-moffettnathanson-says-pay-tv-has-entered-the-doom-cycle

Comcast was hiding millions of pay TV subscribers for a long time with bundle deals, but even they have realized the milking pay TV for it's last years before it fully implodes will generate more shareholder value than attempting to prop up subscriber numbers with pay TV bundles that essentially weren't making money on the TV side.

I love the TiVo experience, but I also acknowledge the reality that most of the content is now on streaming anyway, so even though I have a TiVo, a small portion of the content is actually ON the TiVo, most of it is on YouTube, Max, and other streaming services. The fundamental shift that some people haven't acknowledged yet is that it's not about a 1 for 1 replacement, it's about eyeball-hours, and a lot of eyeball hours have moved to YouTube as well as niche and quasi-niche streaming platforms. And the other fundamental shift is that even among people who haven't yet cut the cord, the majority of their viewing is OTT SVOD anyway.

The problem is that kids these days think that since they use cr*ppy, buggy apps means everyone does. The only reason why these services are so popular is because linear TV was price-gouged by the cable companies. The programming providers contributed to this too with added costs to programming contracts, but it's the cable companies that have the most blood on their hands. Because of this, linear TV is soured and the consumer was turned off to it. It's still very expensive and customers are still soured. There is limited choice with cablecard set top boxes. These reasons are why the customer is turned off to linear TV, not because it's "old" or that "technology moves on" or "streaming is better".

TiVo and other DVRs ultimately solve the "problem" of linear TV, where people can watch their favorite shows on their schedule, just like they can with streaming. The benefit to TiVo over streaming is that you can watch live TV when something is not of interest. If not, you have your library of recordings. Ultimately, nothing has changed. What has changed is that cable companies price-gouged and got away with it and the inaction of the FCC and industry to promote the use of cablecards which lead to less STB choice and worsening of the situation.

 

[emuman100]

I just got off of the line from Comcrap cable card support 877 405 2298 and they told me in no uncertain terms that cable card services will be ended on 25 Oct. I had to ask the question 4 times and have the person check with their supervisor. I'm leaving Xfinity. Now decide what to do.

You are going to believe a poorly informed customer service group in another country that doesn't even have Comcast? I was told something completely different. The best option is to wait it out. Comcast is relying on misinformation to move everyone to X1 or Xumo boxes as well as streaming services through them.

 

[emuman100]

What was that the Xfinity Assistant or a live agent?
Comcast never said cablecards would stop working after October 24th.
The PKM600 PowerKEY single stream card is a different issue than the no new cards after October 24th issue.
After October 24th the policy of no new CableCARDS to new or current customers will take affect.
You can continue to use your current card (but no PowerKEY cards) until it fails or Comcast shuts down QAM and goes IPTV only.
Comcast is now wanting to go to DOCSIS 4.0 FDX so who knows how much longer they will keep QAM going.

This was most definitely a live chat agent. I heard two US-based customer service agents on the phone read aloud this same information to me, so I'm guessing it's a bulletin of some sort.

 

[emuman100]

So it sounds like Comcast’s recent firmware update addressed the issue for majority of customers and the small few hundred left will be communicated to, to make a replacement, like with Spectrum.

The firmware on my PKM908s are dated November 2022. The new ones I received all update to that version when installed in my spare TiVo.

Spectrum has a huge problem with internal communications, and it seems Comcast does too.

I definitely echo this comment.

Most reps and others are not familiar with the models of cablecards or any of their technical details. So is it the single stream cablecards not being issued after the 24th or all of them? Will all cablecards stop working after that date or is it just the single stream cards? Do you think Comcast really cares if they don't get the communication or management right? No one really knows for sure except for the three or four people at Comcast that are managing this.

 

[Gopal Miglani]

Here is some fragmented information I got from an xfinity chat agent today indicating the only model of cable card to stop working is specifically the PKM600, which is an original single stream model:

After October 24, 2024, Xfinity will no longer support CableCARD model PKM600 for Xfinity TV service. Approximately 400 customers nationwide with this model will be impacted and need to switch to compatible TV equipment like an Xfinity X1 TV Box to continue watching Xfinity TV content. Customers will receive notifications via bill messages and email starting August 22, 2024.

The next fragment:

Xfinity will not provide replacement CableCARDs for compatible devices after October 24, 2024. Customers using devices with CableCARDs that stop working may need to take action to continue watching video content. Due to software upgrade limitations with CableCARDs, Xfinity is currently phasing out their use altogether.

However, I asked the agent of the PKM600 was specifically being phased out:

Ok, this is good information. the PKM600 is an older singlestream card. Is the phaseout specific to the PKM600?
Yes, the phaseout is specific to the PKM600 CableCARD model.

So this may indicate the PKM600 is being phased out and not all cablecards at this time and was simply a global miscommunication. It's entirely possible especially when cablecard use is niche. I know things may change in the future, but it costs money and time to implement changes. This information tells me, if it's correct, that I'll still be a happy TiVo user for a long time to come.


Math aside, QAM may go away, but linear TV still has lots of fans. Not everyone likes buggy apps, mountains of crap to sift through, and provider-sponsored content blocking what you want, let alone the people willing to navigate the mess that is the "streaming app". That's one reason why people like TiVo, the experience. Not everyone is a young kid that only knows streaming, including elderly, which is a good amount of the population. Why do you think TiVo is selling its "experience" now?

@emuman100 You hit the nail on the head. The best thing about TiVo is the experience and consumers are willing to pay for that outstanding experience.That has been my takeaway from being a user starting in 2000 when I purchased the first unit.

 

[NashGuy]

Comcast is relying on misinformation to move everyone to X1 or Xumo boxes as well as streaming services through them.

I just honestly don't think Comcast is all that worried what the small number of remaining CableCARD users do. Switch to X1, switch to their app, drop their cable TV service completely. Whatever. Comcast probably loses more cable TV customers in the average quarter (maybe even month) than their entire number of customers who are still using CableCARD retail devices like TiVos.

 

[emuman100]

I asked via the business team about whether cablecard service will continue and they just reiterated what was in that post. I asked them to send me clarification because I'm concerned that there is a change rippling rippling through their system. The person who I talked to thought "it probably would still work until it doesn't..." It also possible they are preparing for major changes to their network... Given the uncertainty, I'm going to start moving off of them.

Why not just wait until it stops working completely? It may be a year until that happens. Have a plan of action, but don't act on it until the very bitter end.

And believe me, I will drag it until the very bitter end!

 

[CommunityMember]

I just honestly don't think Comcast is all that worried what the small number of remaining CableCARD users do. Switch to X1, switch to their app, drop their cable TV service completely. Whatever. Comcast probably loses more cable TV customers in the average quarter (maybe even month) than their entire number of customers who are still using CableCARD retail devices like TiVos.

While the FCC no longer requires the numbers of CableCARD customer for each operator to be sent to them, the last numbers (long enough ago that the numbers have only gone down) showed that less than a fraction of a percent of their TV customers had CableCARDs. Each and every month Comcast (and all the operators) have around a 2% churn of customers. So if 100% of all the CableCARD customers dropped Comcast all at once it would be barely a blip in a single months customer numbers. Comcast will simply not be considering those customer numbers as being significant in their decisions about TV service moving forward (they will, of course, try to market to those customers about how great the X1 experience is, but if they drop TV service, so be it).

 

[emuman100]

While the FCC no longer requires the numbers of CableCARD customer for each operator to be sent to them, the last numbers (long enough ago that the numbers have only gone down) showed that less than a fraction of a percent of their TV customers had CableCARDs.

Do we really have an accurate count here? I'm willing to bet the count is higher than people think before the cable companies started to implement their demise, especially because there are a good following of TiVo users.

And I would suspect there would be a lot of customers dropping Comcast completely. Many customers have other choices in internet providers that are probably cheaper. As I mentioned in a previous post, I intend to be with Comcast until the very bitter end. I'm one of the lucky customers that has a fiber competitor in the area which I intend on switching to because it'll be cheaper.

 

[KevTech]

Do we really have an accurate count here?

I suspect even less now than in 2020.

For example, the FCC reported that there were just 456,000 CableCARDs installed in retail navigation devices at the end of the first quarter of 2020 among the four largest US cable operators of the time, down from 528,000 some three years earlier.

https://www.lightreading.com/cable-technology/cablecard-era-at-comcast-is-drawing-to-a-close

 

[shulercox]

I have been pleasantly surprised that Spectrum is continuing to support cablecards for existing customers. Maybe they are doing the right thing by supporting loyal customers. Nah, that's probably not it. One thing is that Spectrum probably has cablecard technology buit into a lot of legacy set top boxes. Also, cablecards provide the proven method of meeting the FCC requirement for "separable security." They might be concerned on whether other methods will pass FCC muster, especially if the Democratic administration continues. It does seem that cablecards have some support at the top of the Charter food chain even if many local managers haven't gotten the word. The HSC program cost them a penny, as well as replacing some PowerKEY cards.