[Francorossobianco]

So for the third time, I have a Bolt that has died with the flashing 4 LEDs. I took it apart and tried to replace the hard drive using the instructions found here and elsewhere. But the Tivo Experience issue prevents me from using my new hard drive. This feature requires you to roll back the TE to the previous version or Bolt won't self-format the new drive. I'm stuck with a perfectly good (new)HDD that I can't use in my Bolt. So i screwed the cable(Fios) into the TV, scanned the digital channels and I'm watching live cable through the Samsung TV. My real question is this - is there any program guide for a smart TV which would integrate a guide with the smart TV? The way it works now is that I can enter the channels on my remote but I don't have a program guide. It would be awesome if there was a smart TV app which would integrate QAM tuner with a local program guide for your cable company.

 

[tommage1]

So for the third time, I have a Bolt that has died with the flashing 4 LEDs. I took it apart and tried to replace the hard drive using the instructions found here and elsewhere. But the Tivo Experience issue prevents me from using my new hard drive. This feature requires you to roll back the TE to the previous version or Bolt won't self-format the new drive. I'm stuck with a perfectly good (new)HDD that I can't use in my Bolt. So i screwed the cable(Fios) into the TV, scanned the digital channels and I'm watching live cable through the Samsung TV. My real question is this - is there any program guide for a smart TV which would integrate a guide with the smart TV? The way it works now is that I can enter the channels on my remote but I don't have a program guide. It would be awesome if there was a smart TV app which would integrate QAM tuner with a local program guide for your cable company.

Well about the drive, yes some will work with the previous OS (TE3) but not with TE4. But I will guess you are trying to use an SMR (as opposed to CMR) drive. In either case (TE3 or TE4) not recommended. Current model drives (especially 2.5" drives), many will NOT work as they are SMR. You should be able to find one that will (a CMR drive), either an "older" model 2.5 or many choices with a 3.5. With 3.5 you'd be going external (there are threads on how to do it). Bottom line, even though your drive is new that does not mean it will work with a Tivo, good chance it will not if it is current model 2.5" drive. When posting always good to mention the model number, size etc. of the drive in question.

Can't help with the "real question".

Oh, there might be a way to "roll back" the Bolt to TE3, if you have a CMR 3.5" drive (or a CMR 2.5" drive) lying around. Most any capacity under 3TB. Just take the cover off and hookup the CMR drive. Temporary so might be able to do the 3.5 without additional extension cables. If it boots up ok check here to see how to roll back to TE3. Once you do that you could TRY your "new" drive. It still may not work, even on TE3 depending on model. Again always post model of drives you are trying when asking questions.

 

[Francorossobianco]

Yes! I appreciate you taking the time to answer. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I have about ten old drives laying around, some are very old like 10-15 years. I have some 2.5 and some 3.5. None are larger than 3TB. I have tried three of them in the Bolt but so far no luck. The one particular drive I initially focused on is a Dell 4TB SSD that was in an older Bolt that worked fine until I took it out of service in favor of the Bolt Vox. Unfortunately, when I removed the drive to save it I formatted it for my Windows PC rather than saving it as-is for a rainy day Tivo experience. Now it just hangs on the "Starting Up" screen when I try to use it in the Vox(as predicted by everything I've read). I even re-partitioned the Dell SSD to a 2TB partition to try to trick the Bolt into thinking it is the correct size but it still hangs.
Having read your reply I will go thru some of the older 3.5 inch drives and try them in the Vox. I just need to downgrade the TE and then hopefully I'll get the "proven" SSD to work. Are there any tricks to partition these old drives that will help the Bolt recognize them? I know when creating a partition I have to choose between two types, and I have no idea if it even matters.
One more thing I'll try is finding another old Bolt that works on Craigslist or Ebay and using the drive from it to downgrade.

 

[tommage1]

Yes! I appreciate you taking the time to answer. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I have about ten old drives laying around, some are very old like 10-15 years. I have some 2.5 and some 3.5. None are larger than 3TB. I have tried three of them in the Bolt but so far no luck. The one particular drive I initially focused on is a Dell 4TB SSD that was in an older Bolt that worked fine until I took it out of service in favor of the Bolt Vox. Unfortunately, when I removed the drive to save it I formatted it for my Windows PC rather than saving it as-is for a rainy day Tivo experience. Now it just hangs on the "Starting Up" screen when I try to use it in the Vox(as predicted by everything I've read). I even re-partitioned the Dell SSD to a 2TB partition to try to trick the Bolt into thinking it is the correct size but it still hangs.
Having read your reply I will go thru some of the older 3.5 inch drives and try them in the Vox. I just need to downgrade the TE and then hopefully I'll get the "proven" SSD to work. Are there any tricks to partition these old drives that will help the Bolt recognize them? I know when creating a partition I have to choose between two types, and I have no idea if it even matters.
One more thing I'll try is finding another old Bolt that works on Craigslist or Ebay and using the drive from it to downgrade.

SSDs not really recommended either, especially on TE4 (so not a good temp solution to roll back unit to TE3). But I DOUBT you mean a 4TB SSD anyway? Maybe you mean a regular 4TB 2.5 drive? For the rolling back procedure I'd recommend 500GB or less if you are not sure what is CMR or SMR, I think most if not all 500GB drives (platter based, not SSD) or less are CMR (someone correct me if I'm wrong). As for formatting, just do a full windows format (not quick). Or write zeroes to the drive (a secure erase).

Not sure why you don't list your model numbers, sure would make it easier for someone to help. Model numbers of the DRIVES themselves.

You have an older Bolt? Sounds like it is on TE3. You could try your NEW drive in the old Bolt. Since the old Bolt is most likely on TE3. Bolt and Bolt Vox are pretty much same hardware. Vox means TE4 really. Any Bolt (other than OTA only model) can run TE3 or TE4. TE4 just requires a Vox remote if you want to use the voice function.

 

[Francorossobianco]

Yes, the drive I want to use is a 2.5" Dell Solid State Drive. Actually not 4TB it says 3.84TB on the label(P/N: MZ7LM3T8HCJM-000D3). And it isn't really "new" it was in my old Bolt which I bought used and the guy had upgraded with this drive. It always worked perfectly, but I wanted 4K and Vox so I bought a new TCD849300V with 3TB (the old Bolt never died, I just took out the SSD and threw the rest away after I upgraded). The newer Vox Bolt is the one that died(WD Blue 3.0TB MDL: WD30NPRZ-00YRMT0). For a temporary fix while I downgrade the TE I have two old WD 3.5" drives, a WD2500JS-60MHB1 and a WD1200JB-00GVA0. I have an adapter cable for the non-SATA drive. I have other drives all Seagate or Maxtor. I have tried a couple Seagate drives which give me the 4 flashing LED error. I have tried the Dell drive and I get stuck at the "Starting Up" message. I have NOT tried the old WD drives as they were at the bottom of my pile of hard drives. I'll give it a shot in a short while. Thanks again for your insight! Having fun playing with it....
Just for fun I took the WD Blue drive that failed and plugged it into my PC caddy and was able to partition and format it, and it works fine, but I guess it has a SMART error in it that prevents the Vox Bolt from booting anymore. Oh well.

 

[Francorossobianco]

 

[UCLABB]

Have you tried a different power supply? I seem to remember someone saying they got the four flashing light or not completing start up because of a bad power supply.

 

[tommage1]

Yes, the drive I want to use is a 2.5" Dell Solid State Drive. Actually not 4TB it says 3.84TB on the label(P/N: MZ7LM3T8HCJM-000D3). And it isn't really "new" it was in my old Bolt which I bought used and the guy had upgraded with this drive. It always worked perfectly, but I wanted 4K and Vox so I bought a new TCD849300V with 3TB (the old Bolt never died, I just took out the SSD and threw the rest away after I upgraded). The newer Vox Bolt is the one that died(WD Blue 3.0TB MDL: WD30NPRZ-00YRMT0). For a temporary fix while I downgrade the TE I have two old WD 3.5" drives, a WD2500JS-60MHB1 and a WD1200JB-00GVA0. I have an adapter cable for the non-SATA drive. I have other drives all Seagate or Maxtor. I have tried a couple Seagate drives which give me the 4 flashing LED error. I have tried the Dell drive and I get stuck at the "Starting Up" message. I have NOT tried the old WD drives as they were at the bottom of my pile of hard drives. I'll give it a shot in a short while. Thanks again for your insight! Having fun playing with it....
Just for fun I took the WD Blue drive that failed and plugged it into my PC caddy and was able to partition and format it, and it works fine, but I guess it has a SMART error in it that prevents the Vox Bolt from booting anymore. Oh well.

Interesting. At least one person is testing an 8TB SSD with a TE3 Tivo and it is working fine. It does not work with TE4, not sure if anyone has a working SSD in a TE4 Tivo. Too bad you threw out the Bolt. You could have just downloaded TE4 software to it if you like TE4, would have been the same as the Vox. Bolt Vox is just a Bolt with TE4 software and a voice remote.

Your 4TB SSD, yep, if it worked in the TE3 Bolt it should work once you change your OS to TE3 on your current device. The WD 3.5 WD2500JS-60MHB1 is the drive I would try. Format in computer first. You have not posted the model of the "new" drive that you say does not work so I can only guess if it is SMR. Regardless, SMR drives are NEVER the best choice for a Tivo upgrade/replacement, just stick with CMR. And as UCLA says try the power supply too. If you kept the supply from your old Bolt it should work. Otherwise I believe it is 12V 3A. Also make sure polarity is the same.

 

[cwerdna]

Using an SSD on a TiVo is a huge waste of $ esp. since it will wear out the drive very quickly besides being super expensive for the capacity. Yes, stay away from SMR (Shingled magnetic recording - Wikipedia) drives.

As I said before, I'm a huge proponent of using SSDs in desktops and laptops as at least a boot and programs drive. Been using an SSD as that for over 10 years now. But a TiVo is the WRONG application for them.

 

[Francorossobianco]

Have you tried a different power supply? I seem to remember someone saying they got the four flashing light or not completing start up because of a bad power supply.

No but it isn't the PS. Just got it to work with an old 400GB Seagate 3.5".

 

[Francorossobianco]

Using an SSD on a TiVo is a huge waste of $ esp. since it will wear out the drive very quickly besides being super expensive for the capacity. Yes, stay away from SMR (Shingled magnetic recording - Wikipedia) drives.

As I said before, I'm a huge proponent of using SSDs in desktops and laptops as at least a boot and programs drive. Been using an SSD as that for over 10 years now. But a TiVo is the WRONG application for them.

I have the drive because it was in my previous Bolt. And it's free. And it's 2.5" so it fits. And I have way more capacity in my PC than I need (thanks Costco). So this would be my desire to not spend any more money than I need. And one question for you: How does a Solid State Drive "wear out"? Isn't that the entire purpose behind a SDD? To not break?

 

[Francorossobianco]

OK so thanks for all the comments on this thread! I appreciate them all and yes I know that SSD's aren't recommended. Since it's free and available I'm going to try it. Out of the ELEVEN old hard drives I had laying in the closet I did find ONE that works with the Bolt Vox. It's a 3.5 and only 400GB but it's ok for rolling back the TE. So that's what I'm going to do right now. I'll report back on the SSD if it works. One more question for you all: Once I get a large HDD installed and running can I upgrade the TE again?

 

[cwerdna]

How does a Solid State Drive "wear out"? Isn't that the entire purpose behind a SDD? To not break?

Flash has a can survive only a limited number of write (actually erase then write cycles). And, there are issues with write amplification (The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD). See The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD for background info.

As SSDs have become cheaper, we've started to see TLC and QLC drives which can survive fewer cycles/less writing: https://www.howtogeek.com/444787/multi-layer-ssds-what-are-slc-mlc-tlc-qlc-and-mlc/ and NAND and cells: SLC, QLC, TLC and MLC explained | TechRadar (for example).

Typical desktop and laptop PC usage doesn't see massive writing going on 24/7 (e.g. say 6 tuners causing 6 video streams to be written to disk constantly) so even QLC is no usually no big deal for them, in terms of endurance.

If you look at the specs for SSDs, they may talk about their warranty in terms of terabytes written (e.g. SSD Product Warranty | Support | Samsung V-NAND SSD).

The Samsung 870 QVO (1TB & 4TB) SSD Review: QLC Refreshed lists write endurance in TB and how many DWPD (Drive Writes Per Day) can happen.

edit: Noticed a comment in the above

Samsung's warranty for the 870 QVO is 0.3 drive writes per day for 3 years. This is comparable to many low-end consumer TLC drives and a step up from most other consumer QLC drives that are rated for 0.1 to 0.15 DWPD (sometimes over a 5-year warranty period, but that's still fewer total writes than the 870 QVO is rated for).

 

[Francorossobianco]

Flash has a can survive only a limited number of write (actually erase then write cycles). And, there are issues with write amplification (The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD). See The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD for background info.

As SSDs have become cheaper, we've started to see TLC and QLC drives which can survive fewer cycles/less writing: https://www.howtogeek.com/444787/multi-layer-ssds-what-are-slc-mlc-tlc-qlc-and-mlc/ and NAND and cells: SLC, QLC, TLC and MLC explained | TechRadar (for example).

Typical desktop and laptop PC usage doesn't see massive writing going on 24/7 (e.g. say 6 tuners causing 6 video streams to be written to disk constantly) so even QLC is no usually no big deal for them, in terms of endurance.

If you look at the specs for SSDs, they may talk about their warranty in terms of terabytes written (e.g. SSD Product Warranty | Support | Samsung V-NAND SSD).

The Samsung 870 QVO (1TB & 4TB) SSD Review: QLC Refreshed lists write endurance in TB and how many DWPD (Drive Writes Per Day) can happen.

edit: Noticed a comment in the above

OK that sucks, I would never have guessed that a SSD would have a limited lifespan. Shows what I know. But it's in and working. Consider this an experiment. I'll update this thread when it dies.

 

[cwerdna]

Understanding TLC NAND and the page after discusses SLC vs. MLC vs. TLC and why MLC and TLC have worse endurance. The Intel SSD 660p SSD Review: QLC NAND Arrives For Consumer SSDs briefly refers to the 16 voltage levels for QLC.

 

[Francorossobianco]

Understanding TLC NAND and the page after discusses SLC vs. MLC vs. TLC and why MLC and TLC have worse endurance. The Intel SSD 660p SSD Review: QLC NAND Arrives For Consumer SSDs briefly refers to the 16 voltage levels for QLC.

Ok since my new-ish SSD probably won't last, and since I know how to install a drive in my Bolt, how about some suggestions for a 3TB or larger conventional 2.5" drive to buy and install myself?? I'd like to save a few bucks if possible. Is the WD blue available for retail?

 

[Dan3]

Go with a high duration SSD like the Samsung EVO of at least 2 TB, turn on "sleep after 2 hours of inactivity", and it will last 15 plus years in a TIVO. Get the 4TB drive and it will last 30 years. The rest of the TIVO will also last far longer since it will be running so much cooler.
But SSDs only work on TE3, you can't upgrade a bolt to TE4 or use an edge (which is TE4 only) at all.