[Anubys]

I think the Pegasus is one of the modern ships, so that would explain the differences...

I also make the parallel to cylons and slaves...it was perfectly normal to rape a slave since they were not considered "human"

finally, I'm a little disappointed...the solution to this stand-off is pretty easy and obvious: the president will relieve the Admiral and promote Adama to take over the entire fleet...a little tense moments as the Admiral orders her people around but then they stand their ground and not obey her...I hope the writers are not this predictable!

 

[Anubys]

funny how everyone is forgetting that season 1 finale was pretty intense as well

The president is the Commander in Chief...that was established in the Mini...please let's not rehash this argument again...

I'm still sticking to my hunch that the president will step in and relieve Caine...I'll also add my prediction that the Pegasus will go out in a blaze of glory taking out this big cylon ship that they are now "hunting"...

there was no "rape"...there will not be any moral outrage...cylons are just toasters...you cannot be charged with raping a toaster...

 

[Anubys]

Interesting how 6 had no idea who the spylon was...she was just as shocked as Baltar...

 

[Anubys]

When I first saw Gina in the cell, I thought her arms were cut off (this may have been said by others earlier in the thread but my eyes are too tired to read every word..sorry!).

YES! so did I...I didn't want to be the first to mention it...I was worried that I was just a sick person...until they showed her from the back, I was POSITIVE they had cut her arms off...it really made me sick...

the actress is also very skinny which added to the "holocaust" look...I'm not usually affected by these things (I can easily remind myself that it's not real)...

 

[Anubys]

I can't see her remaining on the show, or at least in the fleet. She's a full-bore psychopath, who routinely abuses her authority to condone or commit murder, rape, and who knows what else. She's also obviously power-mad. I can't imagine anybody seeing her as anything but a threat to human survival, considering the other threat to human survival that requires a certain level of human unity...

where did you get all that?

all we have is one unsubstantiated story about her executing an officer who did not obey a direct order (field of battle and all that), and her condoning torture of a spylon (something even Adama has done)...where is the power-mad and psychopath stuff coming from?

as I've said before, someone looking on the outside of Adama's ship would see a crew that is undisciplined and in need of a major shakeup...

I'm not defending her, but I just don't see where she's all wrong (and mad), either...

 

[Anubys]

Well, for one thing she's trying to murder two of Adama's men to cover up a crime her people have committed...

For another, she thinks her little ship is The Fleet, not the group of ships led by the President...

The sheer glee her people take in the crimes they commit tells me that her ship has a much worse discipline problem than Galactica (obviously, their highly illegal and immoral actions are habitual and approved at the highest levels)...

And I have a very strong hunch that the story her XO told about the murder she committed (it's not an execution without a trial) was the sanitized version.

gee...let me surprise you by disagreeing!

She is NOT trying to murder two of Adama's people. Two of Adama's people murdered an officer (or enlisted man, whatever). She is perfectly within her power (and not an unreasonable conclusion) to find them guilty.

Her people do not commit crimes, they kill cylons (Adama does that) and they torture cylons (Adama does that).

I'm not denying the XO's story...I'm still saying that sort of thing happens on the battlefield. There is no time for trial in a battle. This is not an abnormal thing (by itself). And I'm also saying that -- as of right now -- it's an unsubstantiated story that even the one that told it recanted it...

I'm not disagreeing that she's power mad or crazy...I'm just saying there is not enough evidence to make that statement without any qualifications...

 

[Anubys]

Lucky guess? I think that's too much of a long shot for me to buy. But clearly, there are still some clarifications to make regarding Baltar and Six...hopefully those will be made sooner than later.

Can you remind me about "the device"?

it was a round object that Baltar found attached to the bridge of Galactica...Six Alerted Baltar to it and he remembered her carrying one just like it when she was in his house before the invasion...at least one of them was found to be a comm device...Boomer used it to infiltrate the base star (since the base star would think it's friendly) and blow it up...

 

[Anubys]

why are you assuming that Gina is mentally stressed? she may suffer from physical abuse, but we have no way of knowing that they can't simply erase memories that they find problematic...you're projecting human emotions into her...

 

[Anubys]

And the indisputable fact is that the Cylons are medically indistiguishable from humans. Calling them machines is pure bigotry. And I'm pretty sure that's the producers' intent--there's been a growing awareness among some characters in the show (especially Helo and the Chief, but also Adama and others) that despite their origins and enemy status, these are indeed human beings. It's pretty clear to me that the Spylons are a metaphor for the human tendancy to dehumanize enemies (hence my earlier My Lai allusion). And I suspect that beginning to see the Spylons as human--both by some humans and by the Spylons themselves--is going to play a very large role in the long-term development of the show. I wonder if Admiral Ro's horrific abuse of her prisoners (and her attempt to do the same to Galactica's prisoner) will help push this development into high gear..?

but that is exactly the point...let's just look at recent history for a minute...two white boys are in love with a black slave 200 years ago...they kill her "owner" before he gets to rape her...would it be categorized as "justifiable" homicide?

this is exactly the analogy the producer is going for...99% of the population of the BSG world would not understand killing a human to save a cylon...even from rape...the death sentence would be handed down by ANY judge on that world...there would be RIOTS if any other verdict were handed down...

 

[Anubys]

But they're not Cylons, they're humans working for the Cylons. And there's nothing superficial about their appearance; they are humans down to the cellular level. Just grown and trained by Cylons (which, of course, creates an entirely different set of legal issues).

At this point, I don't think there's any point in arguing about it. You're obviously taking the position of most of the Colonials; I'm taking what I interpret as being the position of the writers. Until we get more information (in three months, sob), I don't see that there's much more to be said than what has already been said.

they are not human, they are synthetic...and we're not arguing how this would play over here...we know it's murky in OUR world...

in the BSG universe, there is no argument from anyone -- including Adama -- that spylons are not human. That they are, indeed, toasters...and thus a crime cannot be committed against them...

in THEIR world, that interrogator was killed trying to defend, for all intents and purposes, an inanimate object...

if you present the facts to the people in the BSG universe, they would ALL agree that Helo and Chief were nuts and should punished (as well as traitors and cylon sympathizers)...it doesn't make it right...but that means that Adama is making a stand standing on the wrong side of the issue...

 

[Anubys]

that's actually a good question...does the spine glow only during orgasm?

I don't know WHY I think it's a good question...but eh...interesting anyway...

 

[Anubys]

it's actually pretty funny when you think about it...

my favorite part was how they had to suffer while fans praised the show...I think that tells it all right there, don't you think?

We have tolerated fans of your show giving lavish praise to your show, and quite at our own sufferance

 

[Anubys]

We don't know that at all...she could have been faking...

clearly, you have more experience with this than me

 

[Anubys]

Wow those guys on the other forums are pretty scary...

The show was controversial. I liked it. I don't like or condone rape, but I liked the episode.

let's just be clear on one thing: the show did not glorify rape or present it as something "fun for the entire family"

(I'm not rolling my eyes at you, but at the people on that other site)...

but anyone who thinks that that sort of thing would not happen is extremely naive...let them watch the Andy Griffith show...

 

[Anubys]

Just to lighten up this discussion a bit....who would be interested in raping a metallic cylon in the first place?

Cheryl

you would be surprised

 

[Anubys]

Nah, that's just a justification for acting sub-human and pretending there is a greater good being served. If you believe there is information to be obtained through inducing trauma, it can be done without the "interregator" getting off on it. Literally.

I could've said it better, but this answer will do...

seriously...totally agree...glad I didn't smeek!

 

[Anubys]

So on-duty military personnel getting sexual gratification with toasters, as a *part* of their duty no less, is OK?

in their world, yes...it's ok...

as for the sentient being argument...again, in their world, they are not -- as of yet -- considered that...

you can clearly see the start of change in some minds, but for 99.9% of the population, they are not only toasters, but toasters that burned ( ) their entire population to the ground...

 

[Anubys]

he had found a moral loophole...he found a female (or two) that he could rape without any consequence...I make no bones about it...he is a rapist...

except that in that universe, it is not rape because she's not human...

I've made the analogy to a slave owner raping a slave girl...it wasn't a rape then, either (for the most part)...

of course it's RAPE...in both cases...but if society agrees that the victim is not human, then it can happen...this is what makes this show so good!

 

[Anubys]

how do we know that this is not a documentary diabolically beamed to us in order to condition us to respond favorably to Galactica when it shows up in orbit?

We need to entertain that possibility!

 

[Anubys]

a Cylon is a machine...no different than a screwdriver. If you use it to drive screws...its helpful, and if one day you get bored and decide to take a blowtorch to it just to see how cool it would look glowing red....you wouldn't feel bad about "mistreating it" would you?

anyone else perturbed by the fact that -- of all the tools to use as an example -- you elected to use "screwdriver"?