[hefe]

Wow. That was intense.

I thought it was awfully cool bringing back the traditional Battlestar look for the Pegasus.

Sure is going to be a long wait...

 

[hefe]

On the podcast, Moore called it Season 2A and 2B.

 

[hefe]

But in the podcast, they call her Gina.

yeah...just being a wisenheimer...

 

[hefe]

(Not really a spoiler, just an editing choice, but I'll spoiler it anyway.)

BTW, from the podcast, the scene with Boomer in the brig...

Spoiler

They filmed it 2 ways. The way it was shown, and a version where Helo and Tyrol get there a bit later, interrupting rather than preventing the act.

 

[hefe]

I'm not sure, but my wife almost stopped watching the series for that scene as it was - much less if it had been allowed to progress a bit farther.

I think that's pretty much it. They knew they were pushing it, and didn't need to make it even more shocking lest they turn people off completely.

 

[hefe]

that's actually a good question...does the spine glow only during orgasm?

I don't know WHY I think it's a good question...but eh...interesting anyway...

We don't know that at all...she could have been faking...

 

[hefe]

That is the most absurd thing I have ever read.

Sure is.
This takes the cake.

We have allowed the entertainment industry to tell us that

* it was "ok" to have a baby's neck snapped (the script originally called for Number Six to drive her finger through the baby's skull);

* it was "ok" to draw a parallel of sympathy toward the terrorists who carried out the Sept 11 attacks - in other words, we got what we deserved;

but, the straw that snapped the proverbial camel's back was the use of rape as a military torture tool in the "Pegasus" episode.

We will NOT allow the entertainment industry to tell us that it is "ok", at any time, for a rape to occur. It does not "advance the story", it glorifies a horrible aggression upon another human being.

We were being told it was OK??? That was the message???

These people are off their rockers.

 

[hefe]

The only thing I'll say on the torture scene is that if they didn't have disclaimer in front of that segment (?), then they probably should have.

They did.

 

[hefe]

<Dummy>

So I must have missed it...when I was watching BSG on the West Coast, they mentioned that the season finale of BSG would be on at 10:00. I recorded that episode, but it ended with the "To Be Continued" at the bottom of the screen...did I see the season finale, and not realize it?

</Dummy>

It was the finale of Season 2A as Ron Moore put it in the podcast.

For the purpose of the network and production, etc., Season 2 is 20 episodes.
However, they are showing them in two 10 episode chunks...What we just saw from July-Sept. and the next 10 (2B) starting in January.

The thinking is that they are avoiding conflicts with the much higher rated networks in their first run and premeire time periods.

 

[hefe]

Don't you mean a Toaster Oven?

Har-har-har-ar..... Good one.

A bun in the Toaster oven...

 

[hefe]

But the reason they would rape a cylon is to induce trama to obtain information.

Nah, that's just a justification for acting sub-human and pretending there is a greater good being served. If you believe there is information to be obtained through inducing trauma, it can be done without the "interregator" getting off on it. Literally.

 

[hefe]

Was Starbuck also out of line when she interrogated Leoben? If someone burst in, in his defense would you defend their actions? Was Starbuck’s motive and goal not the same as the interrogator from Pegasus?.

I believe it was not.

Yes, they were both trying to get information, from that respect there is similarity. But it is my personal belief that you don't rape someone just because of the effect on the prisoner. Which doesn't mean I believe that other forms of torture are completely ok. It's hard to put yourself in such a hypothetical situation, but I can just tell you personally, that if I was in a position where I really believed that I had to cause harm for the greater good, I would take no joy in it. I certainly wouldn't choose a method that is as personal to me (the interrogator) as it is to the victim. Do they have any reason to believe that a Cylon will respond if inflicted with sexual violation? I think they just personally got off on it. Either from a sexual or power perspective, or both.

 

[hefe]

That this is entrenching so many, I think, provides exactly what the writers/producers want - us to be confused about the Cylons as individuals -

I think you are correct about that. Creating these moral dilemmas is part of what makes the show so thought provoking. They know they are setting up a moral conflict. That's the whole point.

 

[hefe]

If you create a thing that responds to pain....are you then obligated to treat it like anything more than what it is...a machine? Cylons are not human. If they were they'd be called "humans" not "Cylons". Cylons are cloned....or somehow copied. They have eachother's memories. When humans die, they're dead. When Cylons die, their memories and everything they are just get transferred to another body. Killing them is just doing them a favor. It gets them out of captivity, it tranfers all the informantion THEY have to a safe place, and it gives the captors NOTHING. Keeping one alive and doing whatever horrible things you can do to it may be the best way to fight back.

If the pain response is what is useful, then you can inflict pain in many ways. Rape is not as much about inflicting physical pain as it is emotional or psychological pain. (Or the rapist gets off on it) If you believe that they are fundamentally machines that just simply have a pain response, then rape should be ineffective. There would be no "mental state" to **** with. Therefore, we return to the conclusion that it is being done just because the rapists want to commit that act, not for any other benefit.

 

[hefe]

you are, of course, assuming that Cylons HAVE emotions and psychology to incfict pain on...its just a program designed to emulate responses that play on YOUR psychology. They could just be using your weaknesses against you...as I said I'm not in any way suggestions that the interrogator was a nice guy...I just don't think he's doing anything that is wrong within the framework of BSG...

and yes, we should all remember that his is just a T.V. show.

Well of course it's a TV show, but it raises issues that can be discussed in terms of real life. Nothing wrong with that.

I think you're missing my point on the above, however. For the rape to be effective, and in any way remotely justifiable as an interrogation tool, (so to speak) you MUST assume that the emotional and psychological aspect is present. Otherwise, yes, you're just sticking a fork in a toaster, and there is no point to it other than playing with a sex doll programmed to act victimized when raped. And the glee with which the Pegasus crew acted out that fantasy is truly horrifying.

 

[hefe]

So, for me what was done against prisoner 6 and almost boomer was unfortunate and a poor reflection upon the Pegasus crew, but it was hardly unexpected given the feelings that the cylons have unearthed in the survivors.

I guess I am just totally hung up on this. I don't get it one bit. It would be very unexpected in my mind if the feeling that the Cylons unearthed in me was that I wanted to **** them. I can understand wanting retribution. I can understand wanting to destry them. I can't understand the desire to **** them.

 

[hefe]

Rape is a crime of power, not anything sexual. There's alot more hate involved in it than there is a desire to get off. The interrogator was doing to as a way to make clear his dominance over the victim.

I've heard people say that, but I don't believe it. Not completely. There are lots of ways to demonstrate power. Getting off on it is a major component. It is done to satisfy something in the person doing it. Power is certainly a component, maybe even the largest component, but there is something else at work.

 

[hefe]

I don't think we really have anything approaching this in "real life".

Well then, I have nothing to discuss with you about it, as philosophical or hypothetical discussions apparently carry no value with you. I'll just end by saying you still don't seem to get my point. Oh well.

 

[hefe]

I would like to know why the podcasts of the last two episodes aren't on the DVD. Unless they are hidden as an Easter Egg.

I didn't realize that they were putting them on the DVD. That's cool.

I listened to them at the time via podcast, and I remember a few were skipped, and Moore had just mentioned that they were busy or on vacation or a shooting hiatus or some mundane explanation. So they basically did them as they were convenient and there were no other time conflicts. I suppose they never went back to do the ones they missed.