TiVo Community Forum banner
1 - 20 of 149 Posts

·
Rebus Philbin
Joined
·
38,568 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wanted to start out with a note from the podcast...

Moore dislikes this episode. Just didn't turn out well, he thought. But he ultimately blames himself.

At least he's honest... ;)
 

·
>>>>>>
Joined
·
3,478 Posts
I've never been a big fan of the nonlinear narrative. It's rarely the case that it's an improvement over the straight narrative. Usually, it's just distracting and prevents the dramatic tension from developing properly, as was the case in this episode, I thought.

A major problem was that this storyline really needed to be a multi-parter. I love the idea of exploring the development of a blackmarket within the fleet, but there just wasn't enough time to do that here. Nothing was really developed. Not the racket boss and his organization. Not the captain's relationship with the prostitute. Not the relationship of the blackmarket with the authorities. The writers only had enough time to create shallow stereotypes instead of characters.

It also struck me as odd that there would be such a large supply of children for for the sex trade. I guess they wanted to make the racket boss more unlikable and they were afraid that making him a mere bootlegger wouldn't work, so they increased his product range. Too bad. A less sociopathic, more politic racketeer would have been far more interesting. In fact, they already had the perfect character to head that up in Zarich. Maybe the writers need to fill a bodybag quota, but didn't want to kill of Zarich just yet?

Maybe they'll come back to it later and fill us in on the fleet's trade policies and supply policies and the politics and red tape involved in all of that. I'd like to see it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,708 Posts
This episode didn't do it for me at all.

I'd actually say this was the least interesting BSG yet.
 

·
All About Footwork
Joined
·
31,738 Posts
was there ANY doubt that Lee would shoot him? This is the first ep that i didn't like...what happened to Duala and Billy? when did this thing with Lee start?

the ep ended almost in mid-conversation...like they ran out of time and jus cut in mid-sentence...

very strange ep...
 

·
Rebus Philbin
Joined
·
38,568 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, now that I've seen it, I have to say that for the first time watching this show, I was really watching the clock. I have to agree with Moore, this one just didn't seem to fit.

I had only listened to the first couple minutes of the podcast before seeing the show, but was quite surprised when he led off by saying that this commentary would be different, as it would be an analysis of a show that didn't work. I'm actually more interested to go back and hear the rest of his thoughts on this one than the standard commentary on a regular show...
 

·
I am Groot!
Joined
·
61,689 Posts
My problem with the episode is that too much of Apollo's behavior came out of the blue--he's been hanging out with hookers? He had a lost love he's never gotten over? He's a murderer? I used toi have a lot of faith that the makers of this show knew what they were doing--that they "have a plan"--but with the networking fiasco, the fiber-optic blunder, and now this, it's looking more and more as if they;re making it up as they go along, and not thinking too much as they do it.

Still a very, very good show. But no longer a great one.
 

·
Seasoned gas passer
Joined
·
12,969 Posts
Man, I really must be in the minority. I loved this ep.....like "The Shield" in outer space.
 

·
Save the Moderatоr
Joined
·
57,191 Posts
Bierboy said:
Man, I really must be in the minority. I loved this ep.....like "The Shield" in outer space.
I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.
 

·
Rebus Philbin
Joined
·
38,568 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
dswallow said:
I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.
Valid to wonder, but in my case, I really was curious if my opinion would be different than his and I believe I honestly went into the epsode with an open mind. I just don't believe my reaction would have been different.

Probably only a handful of people read that first, as I spoilered the first mention and didn't post this thread until less than 1 hour until the show...

It felt to me that this show crammed in the whole Black Market issue in a nice compressed tidy time frame. It's the kind of thing that we should have seen developing for a while. It just really felt forced to me, like they said "hey, this is a neat angle to explore, but we've go to do it and wrap it up in one episode."

The boss seemed like a cliche to me. The flashback scenes were so devoid of context that I was annoyed by them.

Perhaps I was also annoyed by the complete attention to the Black Market and the absence of substance in other areas, such as the Cylons, Sharon, the baby, the quest for Earth, etc. Usually that doesn't bother me, but what they did focus on just wasn't holding my attention.

I haven't gone back to listen to the rest of the commentary for the details, I only heard the intro that summarizes the fact that he was disappointed.
 

·
>>>>>>
Joined
·
3,478 Posts
I welcome storylines that don't focus on the Cylons and focus on the lives of the humans as they try develop a new society. Many great stories possible there. But, they have to commit more than one-off episodes to those storylines. I guess they're not willing to do that.
 

·
Rebus Philbin
Joined
·
38,568 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Fool Me Twice said:
I welcome storylines that don't focus on the Cylons and focus on the lives of the humans as they try develop a new society. Many great stories possible there. But, they have to commit more than one-off episodes to those storylines. I guess they're not willing to do that.
I guess my preference would have been to have this be a secondary story arc. Something that could develop over time before coming to a head.
 

·
No raindrop ever falls in the wrong place
Joined
·
3,290 Posts
I didn't think this was a great episode, for reasons someone mentioned above. All the stuff about Apollo having a relationship with the hooker & him having a lost love (they split b/c she wouldn't have a baby, or couldn't?) just seemed kinda out of the blue.

That said, it was still a decent episode. Better than 90% of everything else out there.

EDIT: I agree with Hefe. This whole plot line should have been included, in bits & pieces, with other episodes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,928 Posts
dswallow said:
I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.
Guilty as charged! I read the first post in here (the only one at the time) and then watched the episode. I, too, tried to keep an open mind and *wanted* to like it because he didn't. But that didn't work.

I certainly didn't hate the episode, but like others have said, Apollo's actions and backstory seemed completely out of the blue. Almost as if this was about an Apollo from an "Alternate" universe.

Did we see flashes of the blond lady from Apollo's past the first time we endured his free float in space?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Um, , , , yeah, what you guys said.

Dualla is confusing me a bit. Either get it on with Billy or get it on with Lee. Of course, IF she were a spylon, both of these people hang around great power ;)

So who's in charge of Pegasus now? Was that ever determined. Line of command and all that, or is it just a floating free for all?

No real follow ups to the Prez. blood story, I guess that's OK, but seeing as though once again, time has passed, I would have suspected more.


Still waiting for Fridays, but losing that edge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
I liked it actually... It can't be all-cylon-all-the-time. That would make it one dimensional. This episode wasn't much at all about the black market, it was all about Apollo.

I didn't see Apollo's behavior as coming out of the blue. He's been struggling with his inner demons since right from the beginning. We saw it in the pilot movie, we saw it when he broke away from Adama and backed the President. After his close brush with death during the battle to destroy the Ressurection Ship, he has aparently lost what little vitality he had left. When he went to the Prometheus, he didn't really care if he lived or not.

Getting rejected by the prostitute, the flashbacks to his lost love, the cold response to Dee, and seeing the erosion of civility on the Prometheus... He has pretty much given up.

The title of this episode was quite fitting. It's the darkest treatment of any character yet. The series is about hope vs. dispair.... and Apollo has aparenty given in to the latter.
 

·
Konner Kringle
Joined
·
6,482 Posts
i kind of liked some of this episode. There were some subtle nods to the original series, like Siobhan==Cassiopeia, Pya==Boxey. I also liked Roslin's giving an "out" to Baltar without revealing her hand.
 
1 - 20 of 149 Posts
Top