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· has gone his way...
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
And image and perception is part of this competition.

If it WASN'T... this competition would be on the RADIO only so we could only hear and judge the voice.

There have been a LOT of people who have had the Voice, who simply didn't have the look. Take Clay for example, he was shot down by the pre-reviewers in two other cities, before he got through. And even then, RPS said that Clay didn't have the "look", but he had an over powering voice. (knowing that if he could survive, and get his "face" into the hands of the expert "make-over" people, that they may be could over come that.... result... One of the most successfull results from the AI series.
 

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bigpuma said:
um, it's not there job to be prejudiced. Prejudiced means to pre-judge, they're job is to judge what they hear not make a decision before a person starts singing. That being said they heard him, he sucked, they said no. They did their jobs.
"um," the job includes judging one's presentation, even if it happens before the contestant opens their mouth. So, yes, their job is to "pre-judge" based on the criteria.

I believe that has been crustal clear from the beginning.
 

· The Gimp
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ebonovic said:
Some more "intresting" and heated discussion regarding

Zack (the last contestant from the show)

http://myidol.idolonfox.com/boards/topic.aspx?tid=3748

And I thought WE (at TCF) got into arguments...
Do people forget what Simon is like from year to year? It's funny how they are shocked and indignant when he makes a comment about size or looks, like he's never done that before.
 

· LOAD"*",8,1
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eric_mcgovern said:
I was glad she was actually good, a lot of times an entire family comes out, and the contestant is horrible.

When she started in on the eviction story my wife looked at each in shock..."what about all those people who have her name ironed on their shirts?" Not sure why she had to pull that story out of nowhere. She may have been evicted but certainly isn't homeless.
I was thinking the SAME THING. "She doesn't have money for someplace to live... but she has money to have all those people make iron-on shirts for just that one purpose?"
 

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Hansky said:
"um," the job includes judging one's presentation, even if it happens before the contestant opens their mouth. So, yes, their job is to "pre-judge" based on the criteria.

I believe that has been crustal clear from the beginning.
the appearance is all a part of the package, I don't consider that pre-judging, that is just judging. If they stopped him/her before he/she sang and said sorry no get out before hearing the voice that would be pre-judging. They didn't do that and in fact they have let people through on voice alone despite appearence, although they usually don't last long.
 

· Certified Neurotic
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I would just like to put it out there that you all shouldn't be intimidated by my intelligence.

I rarely lose in Chess, and have some ideas for inventions.

So just because you are all stupid compared to me, doesn't mean I'm a bad guy.

Oh, and I can sing, too.

:rolleyes:
 

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bigpuma said:
the appearance is all a part of the package, I don't consider that pre-judging, that is just judging. If they stopped him/her before he/she sang and said sorry no get out before hearing the voice that would be pre-judging. They didn't do that and in fact they have let people through on voice alone despite appearence, although they usually don't last long.
That analysis does not work in a situation where the person was in front of the 3 judges, and on TV, only for entertainment value.

Nonetheless, yes they are prejudiced toward people who fit the mold, and against people who do not. That is their job. A few sing well enough to get a pass. I still have not seen anyone identify the qualities for which they were allegedly prejudiced, if not the actual mold of the AI contestant.
 

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Hansky said:
That analysis does not work in a situation where the person was in front of the 3 judges, and on TV, only for entertainment value.

Nonetheless, yes they are prejudiced toward people who fit the mold, and against people who do not. That is their job. A few sing well enough to get a pass. I still have not seen anyone identify the qualities for which they were allegedly prejudiced, if not the actual mold of the AI contestant.
We are just picking nits here but that is not prejudice. Prejudice suggests that they are judging without just grounds or sufficient knowledge. Basing all or some of your judgements on looks does not equal prejudice. Looks are an important factor in this competition so they use it as part of the qualifications. They have an image of what they are looking for and use that to judge the contestants. it is simply judgement not pre-judgement.

From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
synonym see PREDILECTION
 

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jrinck said:
I'd worry that if I hired him to clean my house that it would end up dirtier.

"Yo, sorry, man, it's just that my enterpreneurenterprenship skills sometimes sidetrack me! It's hard being this good!"
but he would look so fine cleaning your house in his color matching outfits.
 

· El Caganer
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I started watching this during the second half hour so I guess that I missed this fabulous 16 year old. Wasn't really impressed by anything I saw and I was terrified by the last um...person. "Why does everyone think I am a girl?" Hmmm...could it be the hair, the shirt, the belt, the low rider jeans, the plucked eye brows, or the high heels? The La Cage auditions were down the hall honey. Flawless was awesome as was Space Coaster. The combined power of those two intellects might be enough to make a Slurpee.
 

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bigpuma said:
We are just picking nits here but that is not prejudice. Prejudice suggests that they are judging without just grounds or sufficient knowledge. Basing all or some of your judgements on looks does not equal prejudice. Looks are an important factor in this competition so they use it as part of the qualifications. They have an image of what they are looking for and use that to judge the contestants. it is simply judgement not pre-judgement.
Sure, it is prejudice. It fits right in the definition. We are just debating on the particular factors, purpose, end result and justification of the prejudice.

The Downtown Social Club does not accept Zachary for membership because of his/her/whatever's gender issues.

American Idol does not accept Zachary as a contestant because of his/her whatever's gender issues.

(Of course, this leaves out the actual facts -- American Idol does not accept Zachary as a contestant, but freely exploits him/her/whatever for stunt ratings.)

Just about any job interview is prejudice and discrimination, if you want to go by Webster.
 

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Hansky said:
American Idol does not accept Zachary as a contestant because of his/her whatever's gender issues.

(Of course, this leaves out the actual facts -- American Idol does not accept Zachary as a contestant, but freely exploits him/her/whatever for stunt ratings.)
Actually I bet if Zachary could sing he would have been put through, if for no other reason than it would make for good television. And which part of Webster's definition does this fit. They did not make a preconceived judgement nor did they make an adverse opinion without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge. They judged him based on his appearence and singing ability. That is still not prejudice. Which part of the definition fits in this case?
 

· Domestic Extremist
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On idol they aren't exactly pre-judging, but rather rejecting people who they can't sell as an "American Idol." They do have a lot of room for different types - bigger women with personality who can belt out a song, hot young girls who sing okay but are gorgeous, geeky men who are not very attractive but sing well, farmers with medicre voices but who instantly make us like them, hot guys........well, you get it. I don't think they automatically reject anybody for any type until they audition.

The one thing they have to do is be able to sing fairly well, and be likeable to the American public.

That confused young man/lady isn't going to appeal to the majority. S/he wasn't likable, and most people won't relate to him/her, so that is the sole reason she wasn't picked.

I'll bet if she had a great voice, was not uncomfortable with herself, and had likeable qualities, even as a cross-dresser she'd have made it to the next round, at least, as long as she didn't make the people watching her uncomfortable, and gave them something to root for.

Of course, I live in CA, so what do I know. ;)
 

· at redh dot com
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Hansky said:
I still have not seen anyone identify the qualities for which they were allegedly prejudiced, if not the actual mold of the AI contestant.
Well that is because this was Zachary's rant about being prejudiced contained very little detail. This was something that he believed and really he is the only one that can answer the question you are asking.

My belief, which may be incorrect, is that Zachary felt he was being prejudiced because he is cross-dresser and sounded like a girl.

Either way, the singing sucked and the performance was bad too.
 

· Hi. What is this?
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Jebberwocky! said:
but he would look so fine cleaning your house in his color matching outfits.
Flawless, after attempting to spit out his company's slogan: "It's a tongue-twister, but I wanted it that way." That's something to look for in a slogan, something that is hard to remember. :up:

:D
 
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