Zatz Reports that FCC Drops CableCARD Requirements for Cable TV Providers

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by NashGuy, Sep 5, 2020.

  1. Sep 5, 2020 #1 of 183
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    https://zatznotfunny.com/2020-09/cablecard-is-dead/

    Per FCC filing of 9/4/20:
    "We...eliminate outdated CableCARD support and reporting requirements."

    This doesn't mean that MVPDs will necessarily stop offering and supporting CableCARDs in the immediate future. It just means that they are no longer required to do so by the government.

    We've seen multiple reports over the past couple of years of folks getting the runaround from their MVPD about obtaining or successfully activating a CableCARD for their TiVo. (Seems like certain providers, like Altice, Frontier and maybe Charter, are worse about this.) Those folks could contact the FCC to apply pressure to their MVPD and get the support they needed. Apparently, that's no longer an option. Looks like CableCARD users are on their own now.

    Will be interesting to see if any MVPDs send out notices this year to CC users telling them that those devices are no longer supported. Or perhaps we'll just see them continue to allow currently deployed CCs remain in use but no longer provision/activate any more of them.
     
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  2. Sep 5, 2020 #2 of 183
    dishrich

    dishrich Active Member

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    Guess that explains why Comcast no longer bills for CC's, at least on the new Simple & Easy plans...
     
  3. Sep 5, 2020 #3 of 183
    jaredmwright

    jaredmwright Member

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    I hope this means IP based video with higher picture quality is coming for TiVo. It has been holding back linear tv quality IMHO. There are so many CC in use, hopefully this will take a long time to effect existing users and not be an immediate issue for most.

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  4. Sep 5, 2020 #4 of 183
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Footnote 40 of the FCC filing states that, as of first quarter of this year, there were about 456,000 CCs in use among the four largest MVPDs that issue them (which would appear to be Comcast Xfinity, Charter Spectrum, Verizon FiOS, and Cox). That amounts to right about 1% of the total number of cable TV subscribers that those four operators reportedly have now.

    Given the amount of fluctuation that these MVPDs report in their TV subscriber counts from quarter to quarter (usually in the downward direction), I'm not sure that they're going to be all that concerned about the potential loss of 1% of their subscriber base if they stop supporting CC. And, of course, even if they pull the plug on CC, not all those CC-using customers would walk away. A decent chunk would switch over to MVPD-provided boxes, like the X1/Contour provided by Comcast and Cox.
     
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  5. Sep 5, 2020 #5 of 183
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Active Member

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    How would that come to tivo when their dvr's are cable card based? You think they're going to make new iptv based dvr's? Or do you think they're going to use that as their excuse to slowly let their dvr's die?

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  6. Sep 5, 2020 #6 of 183
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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  7. Sep 5, 2020 #7 of 183
    CommunityMember

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    I am not exactly sure the value add of what a classic TiVo is moving forward in most cases for most customers.

    IP based video is already available on various TV's/Streaming_devices/mobile, and of course the TiVo Stream. However, most of them depend on the content provider to provide navigation and (cloud) DVR storage, although the TiVo stream does have their app to try to curate the available content.

    As for providers that are aggressively moving to IPTV such as Comcast (but others have made steps in that direction), allowing a classic CableCARD TiVo to access their IPTV stream will require Comcast and TiVo to come to a mutually satisfactory agreement beneficial to both companies, which is likely to happen only with inclusion of settlements on their other ongoing contractual disputes (i.e. the various patent lawsuits).
     
  8. Sep 5, 2020 #8 of 183
    CommunityMember

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    TiVo (the STB side) makes their money with STBs/DVRs for the cable/satellite operators, and is their focus. The consumer market continues with new devices/features primarily when the cost to offer a new product is very small since the other providers are paying for the primary development costs (that is why the Edge was released, it was a provider box and throwing a consumer UI on it was reportedly a small cost). OTA is pretty much the last justifications for owning a self-hosted DVR (cloud/OTT providers already provide dvr/on-demand capabilities), and you don't need the entire CableCARD eco-system overheads (and certifications) to produce such boxes (Amazon Replay, Android TV Live Channels, etc.).
     
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  9. Sep 5, 2020 #9 of 183
    mattyro7878

    mattyro7878 Well-Known Member

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    Can our box s actually be made to work with iptv? Or are you talking a new line of hardware ?
     
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  10. Sep 5, 2020 #10 of 183
    morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    Technically yes, but it would require cooperation from the cable companies which is unlikely to occur.
     
  11. Sep 6, 2020 #11 of 183
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    If it was in the realm of possibility it would have happened when they ditched Tivo VOD last year.

    It ain't happening and at this point I doubt Tivo even cares.
     
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  12. Sep 6, 2020 #12 of 183
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Active Member

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    This is the truth. Any Dvr customer that is asking or wants to see any sort of new feature that makes it more usable just needs to stop posting. It's not happening. No, it's not a possibility, and you're just wasting your time asking the question. Suck it up. What you have is what you'll get until your box dies or you sell it. Either deal with it or throw it on eBay and find another solution.

    Wishing and hoping will just make you frustrated, and it's just not worth it.

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  13. Sep 6, 2020 #13 of 183
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Yet another reason Ajit Pai needs to be fired.

    Seems the writing is on the wall for cablecos (AKA ostriches) anyway.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  14. Sep 6, 2020 #14 of 183
    ITGrouch

    ITGrouch New Member

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    I have a close friend that lives in Sioux Falls SD and his cable provider there started rolling out TiVo Edge and Mini 4K devices several months ago. The consumer CableCard units will get phased out when the major service providers eventually pull the plug on CableCard, but they will continue to manufacture devices for service providers. You are correct that TiVo's bread and butter comes from service providers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  15. Sep 6, 2020 #15 of 183
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    The main solution that TiVo is selling these days for service providers is IPTV hardware and software (typically running atop Android TV). This is the first I've heard of a TiVo Edge being deployed by a cableco. Thought that TiVo had turned over manufacture and sales of CableCARD hardware for QAM cable TV to Arris/CommScope, which sells the MG2 gateway running TiVo software.
     
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  16. Sep 6, 2020 #16 of 183
    JackStraw

    JackStraw Member

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    I hope Verizon FIOS continues to support cable cards. I watch all my sports on delay. Right now with the NBA, NHL and MLB and the NFL added to the mix this week I need my DVR. Can't deal with FIOS clunky software and slow menu guide.
     
  17. Sep 6, 2020 #17 of 183
    CommunityMember

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    It is, of course, impossible to predict what VZ will do, as they have lots of possibilities they are juggling, and until the music stops no one knows what balls will hit the floor. However, it is perhaps instructive that in at least some markets they were suggesting to new subscribers that they should consider selecting YTTV rather than Verizon TV, and a bit further back they had tested (in beta testers residences) a pure IPTV solution (with a less clunky STB) which they later aborted because they apparently did not want to do that investment in a TV offering. Being a TV provider these days is mostly about revenue numbers, not significant profits (a significant percentage of any money that comes in goes out to the content providers), and comes with a high pain of managing the service. While cord shavers have not hit VZ as hard as some other cable companies, the direction of the consumer is still clear, and a smaller subscriber base for a TV offering is basically a given. There are more than a few industry pundits who think Verizon should (and some think will) just get out of the TV service offering all together (VZ doesn't really need the revenue numbers to prop up their share prices like some of the other less offering diverse players do, so it becomes a little easier to make the decision).
     
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  18. Sep 7, 2020 #18 of 183
    tim_m

    tim_m Active Member

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    I have a cable company in my state that offers TiVo. I don't have them. They're called Grande. They offer Premieres, Roamios and they have a 4k one that is their own. It is an Arris MG2.
     
  19. Sep 7, 2020 #19 of 183
    CommunityMember

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    The MG2 is the predecessor to the MG3 (stated to also be available to operators) that is what TiVo has offered to consumers as the Edge (operator units may have different plastic shells and typically have operator branding labels, and are typically customized to startup with the operator logo, but the hardware is going to be the same). The Edge was, according to various reports, able to be released by TiVo because Arris was doing the heavy lifting (design, certification, manufacturing) for the operators. Should there be a future consumer model (the Edge Plus?) it will likely be based on whatever next model Arris produces for the operators based on their requirements.
     
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  20. Sep 7, 2020 #20 of 183
    UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if TiVo has said anything about the FCC action. It basically screws TiVo's retail business. Maybe TiVo doesn't care.

    I'm in the middle of a significant problem with Spectrum. There is a problem in its system, apparently at a node such that I can't get a number of SDV channels. I get some SDV channels, but not all. I can only hope that Spectrum continues to try to solve the issue rather than just point to the FCC action and give me the finger.
     
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