WTF - TivoS3 resets to 480p after TV/stereo pwr on!

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by subat0mic, Sep 25, 2007.

  1. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
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    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...
    ok, so get this, i'm having a major problem now. I have this connection:
    Tivo Series3 -> (HDMI) -> Yamaha RX1700 -> (HDMI) -> Sceptre 42 1080p TV

    when I turn off my TV, then back on, the TivoS3 gets reset to 480p. (yeah WTF)...

    Every time I power on the TV (leaving the stereo on), I have to enter my Tivo settings and set it back to "1080i fixed" (same problem happens with native or 1080i hybrid). I can actually see the transition to 480p happen, turning the TV on, the tivo is then in 1080i for a brief 5 seconds, frozen with no remote control input, then flickers and goes to 480p.

    It's as if the Tivo is somehow losing sync and falling back to "something safe".

    BTW: I just upgraded firmware on the Sceptre42, it was NOT doing this before that happened. The firmware apparently upgraded the Sceptre 42" from HDMI 1.1 to HDMI 1.3 (unfortunately, I cannot downgrade, as you have to send the TV to the factory for upgrade).... :(


    Is there a way to hack the Tivo to stay put in 1080i???
     
  2. MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

    25,950
    18
    Dec 26, 2002
    Weird. What happens when you hook the HDMI directly from the TiVo into the TV?
     
  3. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    484
    Jan 6, 2007
    Sounds like you have an EDID or HDMI negotiation problem.

    Other than fix the Sceptre, I think your only solution would be to stick a video processor in between, so it would advertise the correct EDID, process the video, then send out to the display. Presumably you could force the video processor to a specific mode.

    If monoprice DVI doctor or gefen DVI detective worked with HDCP that might be a solution also, but they don't, so don't bother.

    If it were me, I would see about getting the Sceptre fixed or use component output on the S3. Sceptre must know about this problem and can issue a new firmware to fix it without requiring you to send it back. It is not an HDMI 1.3 HDMI 1.1 problem. It is a problem with Sceptre's implementation of HDMI 1.3.

    I think you will have difficulty convincing TiVo they should force 1080i mode even if the EDID says the display can't handle it, because 99.9% of the display out there don't have your problem and if they TiVo ignored the HDMI negotiation, they could break some displays. At least that will be their argument.
     
  4. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    7,902
    2
    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    With component connections, there is no communication between the Tivo and the connected device (receiver or TV) so it will always use whatever you select in settings. However, HDMI works differently.

    HDMI displays communicate information (called EDID) that tells connected devices what resolutions they support. The TV is supposed to tell your receiver what it supports, and the receiver is supposed to pass that information on to the Tivo.

    If you have 1080i selected on the Tivo, and the connected device (receiver) tells the Tivo that only 480p is supported, than the Tivo will automatically switch to that to ensure that you get a picture. That is what you are seeing.

    With your original display firmware, it sounds like TV was correctly reporting 1080i as supported to your receiver, which then reported 1080i as supported to the Tivo. With the new display firmware update, it sounds your TV is reporting 480p to the receiver; it's also possible that your receiver is no longer able to communicate with the TV since that update, and in the absence of that information, it defaults back to 480p in communication with the Tivo.

    What happens when you connect the Tivo directly to your TV? If the Tivo maintains the 1080i fixed setting when connected directly to the TV, then that means the firmware update you installed on your TV is not compatible with the HDMI implementation on the receiver.
     
  5. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
    0
    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...
    without the Yamaha RX1700 receiver in the chain, the Tivo stays put at 1080i
    it did reset to 480p when I plugged in the hdmi cable.
    but stays solid at 1080i when I turn on/off the TV...

    Looks like a problem with the RX1700 receiver. :(

    would be awesome if the tivo could maintain 1080i (auto force the resolution for me)... with some menu option... ;)
     
  6. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    484
    Jan 6, 2007
    Is the RX1700 pass through HDMI or true HDMI repeater?

    You can still use component to avoid this issue right?

    You could also get a separate HDMI switch and bypass that functionality of the RX1700.

    If your Yamaha is reacting to your Sceptre upgrade by indicating to TiVo only 480p is supported, then Sceptre must be seeing this problem with others, because you can't be the only person to have it connected to a Yamaha receiver.

    Can you capture the EDID information using a PC connected to RX1700->Sceptre then capture the same EDID when connected directly to Sceptre HDMI port?
     
  7. MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

    25,950
    18
    Dec 26, 2002
    By the way, as a temporary fix if you need it sometime, doesn't the Series 3 have a button to change resolution on the front panel? That way you would at least not have to go through the menus.
     
  8. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
    0
    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...
    that's a good question, but i don't know... wouldn't passthrough avoid this issue?

    yes

    I have no idea how to do this... i'm assuming i'd need some special equipment?

    I did email sceptre techsupport...
     
  9. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    7,902
    2
    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    I don't think that would do anything. After his display firmware update, the receiver is telling the Tivo that >480p resolutions are unsupported.
     
  10. acvthree

    acvthree Active Member

    2,484
    2
    Jan 17, 2004
    Carrollton,...
    Did you upgrade the firmware because you were having sync problem between the Yamaha and the Sceptr 42?

    Is sounds like there are still problems and the Yamaha is passing information back to the Tivo saying that the maximum supported output is 480p?
     
  11. MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

    25,950
    18
    Dec 26, 2002
    He says he has to manually set the TiVo back to 1080i fixed every time after it resets itself to 480p, so I would think that doing it the menu or the front panel button should be the same thing.
     
  12. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    484
    Jan 6, 2007
    Just connect the DVI or HDMI port from you PC video card to the HDMI port of the Yamaha and run moninfo from EnTech. It will show you the decoded EDID, which you can post here. Repeat for the Sceptre HDMI port. You might need some DVI->HDMI converter cables or plugs. You can get them at monoprice.com for reasonable prices.

    http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm
     
  13. jbell73

    jbell73 Member

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    0
    Oct 31, 2006
    I too have this same issue with a Yamaha RX-V2700 unit. Frustrating that the Tivo reports 480P output, but in all honesty, I've never noticed any difference when forcing it back to 720P or 1080I.

    The fact that I can't see an obvious difference makes it not bother me too much, but I still think it's kind of lame. The picture I'm seeing is surely better than 480P.

    -Jeff
     
  14. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    484
    Jan 6, 2007
    You are watching an HD broadcast on an HD channel during primetime, let's say CSI: Miami, and you don't notice any difference between 480p and 1080i output? What size TV are you using?
     
  15. jbell73

    jbell73 Member

    86
    0
    Oct 31, 2006
    I should clarify. I was expecting to see a more dramatic difference than I do.

    The monitor is a 37" Phillips, and I wouldn't expect any HD source to look even "decent" at 480P, but it actually fills in alright. I notice a slight difference during a lot of movement (action) or when there is a lot of detail on the screen.

    The 480P output from the Tivo is not bad when playing from an HD source.

    I too would like the HDMI to not get reset every time I turn my system on. I've considered going with Digital audio from Tivo -> Yamaha and HDMI for Video only from Tivo -> Phillips TV.

    The HDMI reset is not an issue with my HDMI DVD player, only the TivoS3.

    -Jeff
     
  16. MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

    25,950
    18
    Dec 26, 2002
    On a 37" TV I wouldn't notice much difference either if I sat at maybe 10' or more away.

    OT: I think this is why many people don't see the big deal about HD - they don't sit close enough to take advantage of the increase in resolution. I sit about 7' away from a 42"
    screen, and that's where I begin to see the advantage to HD.

    Still, I'd be pissed if my HD source wasn't allowed to output the full resolution. :)
     
  17. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
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    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...
    no, not permanently! only long enough so that the Tivo resets to 480p!
    which is why I wish the Tivo would have an override for this... i.e. "ignore bad HDMI handshake", or "override video mode" :eek:

    I did try the front panel button, and it works (thanks, much much easier!!!)
     
  18. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
    0
    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...
    yes. which it didn't fix. which is why I believe the yamaha is the culprit. the sceptre connects to the tivo great. without slow sync problems too.

    yes. probably. only temporarily right when I turn on the TV... then I can set the tivo back to 1080i. wish there was an override in the tivo to compensate for bad HDMI hardware. :( not Tivo's problem (assuming it's an HDMI protocol cause). but if a legimite HDMI protocol happening, I still don't like the Tivo ignoring my settings eitherm and wish it had an override for this "feature" of the HDMI... :)
     
  19. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
    0
    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...

    with Comcast HD I can really see the pixels (watching Heros, or Tonight show, or Blue planet, etc...) in 480p mode... you can especially see it on the Text graphics in the credits when a show is starting, on "HD" logos, and the network logos... they get "jaggy"


    nice to hear maybe it's a Yamaha rx-v?700 problem! wow. wish yamaha would issue a new firmware. :eek:
     
  20. subat0mic

    subat0mic New Member

    87
    0
    Jan 7, 2007
    Chicago,...
    hmmmm.... maybe tivo is being too "fallbacky" on the HDMI stuff then? :) if only they'd push a quick update out to disable this (or add a new menu option ideally). :)

    it could well fix us Yamaha Receiver owners! :)
     

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