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Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by ncbagwell, Jul 12, 2007.
Haha totally... I feel the same.
(I have two also!)
My guess he was also booted from the beta for violating his NDA.
speak for yourself-
it depends on the provider and the system.
Some systems mark EVERY digital channel 0x02 (copy once) that isn't vod (which get 0x01 = copy never = 90 minute pause) and rebroadcast locals get 0x00- you can do whatever you want.
luckily it seems that comcast made a decision to stop that and since they are the big boys on the block hopefully others will follow.
it's just that no one knows becasue aside from like 10 thousand sony and 300,000 thousand tivo HD cablecard dvr's no one has had a chance to notice. (and without MRV/TTG no one really would notice 0x02 unless you actively go looking).
they have said they are working on it but it's not like it's a make or break thing for them if it was only 50k (or a 100 or even 500k) to worry about.
Fortunately I think it is a huge make or break thing for the future so I'm comfortable that eventually they will live up to what they have said and get it done.
I have one as well but MRV gets me another two. I'm less concerned about TTG because I have that covered with the S2.
I actually find myself considering going the Comcast TiVo route as it seems that will have MRV. I guess that means I will get two if they enable MRV but may well retire one if they don't and the Comcast version does.
I have a modulator setup so I don't need MRV and TTG doesn't really interest me much either. What I WANT is for my TiVo to do what it does best and that's record my shows. It is doing that quite well now, so I'm happy. I don't need anything else. I just hope all these other "improvements" and software updates don't mess with how well my Tivo is working. So I voted "no". It's finally working and I just want them to leave it alone now!
Hmmm...not a bad position to take. Although I'd like it to do my dishes on top of everything else, you are correct. The more complicated the programming, the more opportunities for errors.
But heck, if they can get computers to run a research station in outer space...upgrading TiVo should be a cinch. Oh...wait...
It will likely be transfers yes/no based on source or permissions granted. There may be no difference between MRV and TTG, so TTG will get the same content transferable as MRV gets.
Not this decade. Nearly every service will have an STB with analog SD outputs that a Series 1 or 2 TiVo will be able to record from, or an older TV can view.
Digital and HD is not the same. DBS Satellite and IPTV are 100% digital already. Some channels are HD.
Quite a few channels are SD, and will likely remain that way for some time to come. They may change to HD ---- next decade.
For me, if I were in the market for a Series 3, I wouldn't let the lack of transfers affect my decision, so long as I had a Series 2 and a cable box.
OK, still trying to understand the thought here. If MRV was enabled, you would buy an S3 but would use it only for transferred programs? No cablecards and no tivo service?
Tivo + cablecard fees is still (I think) less than cable DVR rental prices, so where is the savings versus replacing your rented cable DVR?
If your only concern was the pixilization issues, I could understand wanting to keep at least one cable box. But price? And somehow MRV would make it worth the cost?
I still think that any program that could be transferred MRV style, could just as easily be recorded on both tivos to start with. (with the obvious exception of 3 or more programs on at the same time) Is that it maybe, people are recording 3 or more shows at the same time but want to watch them all in the same place? I guess I could understand that reasoning also. I just don't have that problem.
I just don't want to be making the decision if I want MRV I need to use a competitors product.
TiVo should implement a solution that satisfies the demands of Cablelabs like everyone else is doing. Taking the position that they will wait for cablelabs to allow their origional method is just plain stupid. In the meanwhile all the competiion is doing it and it wont be that long until the competition have fixed their bugs enough to be as reliable at recording shows which has always been TiVo's main edge.
I've been a dedicated TiVo user since Oct 2000 and I have to be honest, this S3 lack of MRV is the first thing that has made me look into the other options available.
OK, I'll bite, what other device records in HD and allows recordings to be transferred from one place to another and works with cable?
I would buy if both were enabled, especially TTG. I just went and spent the money on a ps3 instead of a TiVo. I know TiVo is in a hard place, trying to please customers and those CableCard folks but I can't make the investment without all the features. I simply vote with my wallet
The current cable dvr's can copy over firewire to the computer, but they don't go the other way.
HTPC's can record HD and stream the programming to extenders like the Xbox 360 and I suspect other HTPC's.
Have you been keeping up on this? First, the HTPC's with CC's have only just been released. Second, they are a fortune - like 3-5x a S3 Tivo. Third, they are insanely unstable and unreliable. Fourth, they have tons of DRM, and I'm pretty sure they can't transfer to anything else, but they can "stream" to XBox 360's (requiring another $400-$600 per TV).
The price is academic, this is about the technology. Cablelabs have approved DLNA and I simply think TiVo should implement this rather than wait in hope that Cablelabs will approve the current solution. Waiting means they don't have to do any work but, but while thay are waiting the world is catching up. Also if they did go the DLNA it means we could use PS3's etc as clients as well.
I also said earlier that my interest is in MRV and that's what caused me disquiet. I'm happy using my S2's for TTG.
Lastly, there are many DVR's overseas (mainly Japan) that record digital HD content and send stream them around. Here's 16 Exapmles.
True as long as Older STB's remain in use by the cable/Satalite companies the analog outputs from those boxes will drive a S2 or S2 tivo as well as allow older Analog TV's to continue to function.
Same goes for the Digital to Analog conversion boxes being sold to allow older TV's, VCR's, DVD Recorders to continue working after 2-17-09.
However, I never said that Digital & HD are one in the same. Not all digital content is HD, but all HD content is digital. 2-17-09 Is the date that broadcast TV will switch to Digital, Not HD. (Thus requiring an ATSC tuner).
There is complete speculation on how fast/soon Cable systems will stop having analog cable, as well as when TV stations will switch to Digital &/or HD broadcasting. So maybe it will be after 2010, maybe it won't.
However, many channels are in the process of switching to full HD. Currently HBO has only one channel in HD. HBO HD. However it has been announced (By HBO) that by 2-17-09 that all HBO channels will be in full HD by that date. Of course those with STB's will get HBO downconverted & letterboxed for their older TV sets. Cinnemax will be 100% HD by February 2009 as well.
My MAIN & only point is this. That until Content providers get their act together, I don't beleive MRV/TTG will be available for most Digital & HD content.
Eventually.... even if it is after 2010, Content & transmission of that content will still EVENTUALLY be 100% HD. (Even older SD stuff will be upconverted & remastered). So eventually MRV/TTG will have to handle HD content, or it won't be of much use & value.
Since 99.99% of everything I watch on TV is in HD. Then if MRV/TTG isn't available for digital content AND HD content. Then MRV & TTG will have no value to me.
I am only interested in MRV/TTG if it is fully available for Digital AND HD content. As we all know or should realize. That isn't going to happen anytime soon, probably not even this decade!
I 100% agree that it needs to be available for all content or not have any value. The S3 is aimed squarly at the HD market so not to have MRV available for that market makes it largely redundant.
I don't however agree this is the content providers being the obstacle, simply the cable suppliers for the sake of their own interest, even if that interest is protecting themselves from the content providers in the longer term. If Motorola can do MRV for their DVR's (follow me TV?), and HTPC's with DLNA then surely TiVo owe it to us to make these acceptable technologies available. TiVo simply do not have the clout to influence these decissions so they should addopt what has been decided.
Now if MRV was done by Microsoft the same way TiVo has done it this may be a different conversation!