Would it have been better for Series 3 to also work with cable boxes?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by gastrof, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. Sep 2, 2006 #1 of 56
    gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

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    Potato and pen.
    I'm just wondering about people who still have cable boxes but not digital cable.

    Who knows how long it'll be before there's a complete changeover.

    Plus, some seem to have problems with cable cards, and exactly what they are is still in flux.

    Should the Series 3 have been made to still work with cable boxes, have serial cable, IR blaster, etc?

    (I know there's the series 2 Dual Tuner, but it won't give the OTA option, and can't record in HD.)
     
  2. Sep 2, 2006 #2 of 56
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    No.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2006 #3 of 56
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    No.

    The Series3 is for customers that want to replace their cable box with a fully-integrated DVR for cable (and/or off-air) that records all SD and HD digital channels at 100% original quality, with a very high level of usability and reliability, with twice the storage capacity of the typical cable DVR, and support for virtually unlimited capacity expansion using off-the-shelf external SATA drives.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2006 #4 of 56
    TiVo Troll

    TiVo Troll Registered Troll

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    No, but Series 2 should have supported OTA ATSC STB tuners. Maybe TiVo will become enlightened (ha!) and there'll be a Series 2.5 in a year or two.

    With the right deal TiVo would support almost anything. Unfortunately nobody's available to strike OTA deals with!
     
  5. Sep 2, 2006 #5 of 56
    CCourtney

    CCourtney Member

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    Uh, hell no.

    There are now over 150K CableCARD users (it was 44K 1yr ago) The biggest problem was educating the tech's on how to enable them. Once they're enabled they're almost bullet proof ;)

    If you went without the Digital Cable Tuning inside the box, you got to rely on the STB which has multiple concerns.

    1.) IR blaster - too many f' ups happening here
    2.) You need to rent Two STBs to get your HD feeds because you need to tune into two different channels. They're not going to give you a dual tuning STB (but they would let you get a dual tuning DVR, but not going to give you two feeds off of it.)
    3.) How to get the HD feeds to the TiVo
    a.) Firewire - yeah, have you tried getting one setup even with STBs that are suppose to work, then you got 5C broadcast flag, ... No thanks
    b.) HDMI/DVI - Not going to work HDCP baby
    c.) Component Video - Sorry but I don't want Analog HD signal that's re-encoded again feeding my set. I want the HD transport stream.

    CCourtney
     
  6. Sep 2, 2006 #6 of 56
    Shawn95GT

    Shawn95GT Tivo, in HD!

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    I'm doing just that right now with all three of my S2s. You have to lie to your Tivo to do it, but it's acceptable so long a Dish carries your local channels ;).

    I bet they could support a USB ATSC tuner to keep the S2s from becoming paper-weights.

    My Voom boxes do the trick pretty nice until I can get a S3 or two here.
     
  7. Sep 3, 2006 #7 of 56
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    Adding A/V inputs and IR/serial control to the S3 would add complexity and product cost - and for what gain? Just how big of a market is there for an expensive box like the S3 for people who would insist on using a cable box or satellite receiver - when the quality would be no better than the S2DT. You wouldn't get dual-tuner without independent A/V inputs and dual-control outputs - more cost and complexity.

    I doubt there is enough of a market there. The S3 will work with nearly all cable systems, analog or digital, leaving a small segment of the cable market with odd systems - A-B systems, etc.
     
  8. Sep 3, 2006 #8 of 56
    Gregor

    Gregor save the princess save the world TCF Club

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    No. It would make the box too complex, more expensive, and most importantly, even later.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2006 #9 of 56
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Yes. It would have made the Series 3 worth buying, IMHO.
     
  10. SullyND

    SullyND W: 33-9 (Camping World Bowl) TCF Club

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    No. There is no point in doing so.
     
  11. Shawn95GT

    Shawn95GT Tivo, in HD!

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    The S2DT fills that niche. If you need cablecard / Dual digital tuners and/or want to be able to record HD from Cable or off-air, the S3 is the solution.
     
  12. vman41

    vman41 Omega Consumer

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    I'd say S3's would be obligated to support cable boxes only if the were they were digital boxes that could output an MPEG stream with firewire. I haven't researched cable boxes, are there any that do that?
     
  13. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    Yes, in fact FCC regulations require cable companies to supply a box with firewire output if a customer requests one. Also, the DCT64xx Motorola DVR boxes used by major cable companies have 2 firewire outputs that work and one is able to extract mpeg2 transport streams to a PC/Mac for channels without 5C (copy protection) enabled. There are also non-DVR Motorola boxes that have fiewire outputs. This could potentially be the solution to the S3 series working around SDV problem by adding a firewire input to the next version of S3. Note that one is able to tune the box via firewire as well so no IR blaster would be needed as part of such an enhancement.
     
  14. elrcastor

    elrcastor New Member

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    Well, i think the point of the Series 3 is to avoid the CRAPPPY Cable Company DVR's!! So NO!!
     
  15. HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    The correct answer is yes.
     
  16. Gregor

    Gregor save the princess save the world TCF Club

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    I frankly don't see the point of an HD Tivo box controlling an external STB. It would either have to re-encode HD if it used component inputs, or deal with copy restrictions on HDMI (if their are any) Having 2 encoding processes going with dual tuners would require multiple CPUS and make a very expensive box.

    To me, an HD box that only records one thing would be useless unless there was some sort of co-operative scheduling among single tuner boxes.
     
  17. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    The Series 3 as it is, is the most universal solution for an HD TiVo that will work with cable, and will work with OTA digital/analog also.

    If you are adamant on using your cable STB, or are worred about how cablecard will pan out, stick to a Series 2, as that is your only TiVo solution, until the TiVo powered cable DVRs come to your town.

    IMO, an digital/HD DVR (will have to be firewire) will need to be a separate product).
     
  18. gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

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    Actually, what was meant was non-digital cable boxes on systems that still scramble channels below 100 and/or offer pay channels in that channel range.

    "...people who still have cable boxes but not digital cable."

    As for an HD TiVo not using a STB, what about HD televisions working with STB's?

    Don' get me wrong in this-
    I'm all for a device being able to do its job on its own, such as a TiVo being able to tune channels without having to control an external box...and occasionally failing to.

    I LOVE the fact my current setup allows both TiVos to use their own tuners.

    Every time someone mentions a "misfire" on the part of an IR blaster, and a wrong channel being recorded, I cringe. Would NOT want to be dependent on such a setup.

    Some cable customers may have no choice, even now, tho'.
     
  19. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    No, it doesn't, since it doesn't record HD from a cable box as opposed to cable card. That's the niche I'm talking about.
     
  20. megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    A niche TiVo doesn't feel is worth addressing, and I'd have to agree. One of the reasons I want an S3 is to NOT have any cable boxes. Especially not *2* for dual tuners.

    You're talking about a segment of the market who would want to have cable boxes and TiVo, and not just get a cable DVR *or* just use CableCARD. I strongly doubt that's a large market to sell to.
     

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