WinMFS help needed please?

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by bnm81002, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    I accidentally initialized both the Tivo drive and the backup drive on my laptop, how can I un-initialize both drives so that I can use WinMFS to do a copy of the Tivo drive to the backupdrive? thanks
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Start by providing a more informative definition of initialize.

    Do you mean that you let Windows write a Master Boot Record to them?

    What do you mean by backup drive?

    Is that a FAT32 or NTFS formatted drive on which you keep truncated TiVo images, or an unformatted drive you were going to use to upgrade your TiVo with more space?
     
  3. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    I right clicked both drives and initialized them through Windows Management, no I didn't Master boot either drive, I want to downgrade from a 1TB Tivo drive to a 400GB drive via MFScopy, the drives are both NTFS
     
  4. lillevig

    lillevig Cold in East Iowa

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    WinMFS will allow you to delete the format of the drive. You may have to exit WinMFS, physically disconnect the drive, reconnect the drive, and restart WinMFS to get it to properly accept it. How do you plan to go to a smaller drive? I don't think you can do that with MFScopy. If you aren't trying to save anything on the drive, then let us know your exact Tivo model and we can probably steer you to a fresh image.
     
  5. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Okay, before we make the mistake I inadvertently helped someone else make because I was unaware of a previous mistake of theirs, tell me the model number of the TiVo (it should be on the sticker on the back and start with TCD unless it's not a TiVo-brand TiVo, and even then it should still be on the sticker on the back).

    While you're at it, tell me the brand and model number of the 2 hard drives as well.

    WinMFS can fix your problem, but let's be sure we don't create another one.
     
  6. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    it's the old DTivo model Samsung SIR-4040R, Seagate drives 1TB(SATA) and 400GB(PATA), by the way I'm using my laptop to do the downgrade along with an external enclosure and an IDE to USB adapter as well
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Okay, as best I can tell, that's a Series 2, non-byte swapped, "optimized" partition layout unit.


    So, hook the 1TB drive most recently in the TiVo to the PC, boot into Windows, open no Windows programs, except for WinMFS.

    Open WinMFS, select drive (you might have to check show mounted drives), make sure you've chosen the correct drive, see if it reports it as a Series 2 or 3 drive. Apparently it determines that by seeing if the partition starting at block 64 is an MFS Media partition (S2 and up "optimized" layout style) or an image bootstrap partition (original S1 layout).

    See if it'll let you click on mfsinfo, if so notice if it says if it boots from partitions 3 and 4 or 6 and 7.

    Click on fix boot or fix bootpage, I can never remember the exact name.

    It'll give you 2 options.

    Option 1 will write a bootpage (the part Windows overwrote with a Master Boot Record) with 3 and 4 set as the boot partitions.

    Option 2 will do that, but set 6 and 7 as the boot partitions.

    If mfsinfo told you which it was previously set to use, choose the option that uses the same ones.

    If if didn't, then start with option 1.

    Go ahead and click on fix swap after that.

    Exit, power down, test drive in TiVo.

    If it doesn't seem right, go back and use the other option and try it in the TiVo again.

    If that's even worse, go back and re-run the option first chosen, put it back in the TiVo, and try Kickstart 58.


    By the way, exactly which adapter with which brand chipset did you use with that 1TB drive?
     
  8. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    I think you're getting confused about my situation, I'm trying to downgrade from a 1TB drive to a 400GB drive, I deleted as many recordings to make sure I can fit the remaining recordings onto the 400 drive, I've been using the 1TB as my drive for the DTivo receiver, I tried using MFScopy but for some reason it never finished I left my laptop running with the WINMFS program for well over 24 hours, so I deceide to go into Windows Management to look at the 2 drives but accidentally initialized both drives, so now WINMFS sees both drives as Windows and not the 1TB as a Tivo Series 2 one

    PS- are you saying that the 1TB won't work in my DTivo receiver now?
     
  9. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you had the 1TB drive in the TiVo, correct?

    You want to put the 400GB in the TiVo in its place, correct?

    The TiVo uses a version of the Apple Partition Map, rather than the Master Boot Record and Master Partition Table used on the first IBM-compatible PCs.

    Windows can't read the APM or a TiVo drive.

    When you made the mistake of letting Windows "initialize" what it thought were empty drives, it wrote the structure of a Master Boot Record to the front of the drives, where the TiVo's Bootpage is supposed to be, but since you didn't actually create any DOS/Windows partitions (I hope) on those drives, it didn't overwrite the rest of the APM, or any of the actual TiVo-specific partitions, so the one that was in the TiVo is saveable with fix bootpage.

    The TiVo stuff is still there, we just have to restore the directions on how to get to it.

    So let's get the drive most recently used in the TiVo back to where it can be used in the TiVo, and then we'll go from there.
     
  10. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    yes I was using the 1TB drive, yes I wanna use the 400GB in place of the 1TB drive, what do I have to do now? thanks for the help
     
  11. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Hook the 1TB drive to the PC, boot into Windows, but do not open any Windows programs. (especially programs that access the drives attached to the computer)

    Open WinMFS (which technically isn't a Windows program, it's just a program that runs on Windows, and the only one on your computer that specifically knows not to screw up TiVo drives)

    Click Select Drive.

    You may have to check the "show mounted drives" checkbox to get the 1TB Seagate to show up.

    Make sure the drive you select is the one that was in the TiVo, and not the one permanently mounted in the computer from which you run Windows.


    See if WinMFS reports it as a Series 2 or 3 drive. It may not, that's okay, as long as it doesn't specifically say it's a Series 1 drive.

    It can call it a watermelon, as long as it doesn't say that it's a Series 1 drive.


    See if it'll let you click on mfsinfo, if so, notice if it says if it boots from partitions 3 and 4, or from 6 and 7.


    It might tell you it's not a TiVo drive, because it has Windows/DOS style data on the first sector.

    As long as it will let you select the drive, and access the menu items along the top, you should be okay.


    Click on fix boot or fix bootpage, I can never remember the exact name.

    It'll give you 2 options.

    Option 1 will write a bootpage (the part Windows overwrote with a Master Boot Record) with 3 and 4 set as the boot partitions and 6 and 7 as the alternates/backups.

    Option 2 will do that, except that it will set 6 and 7 as the boot partitions and 3 and 4 as the alternates.

    If mfsinfo told you which it was previously set to use, choose the option that uses the same ones.

    If if didn't, then start with option 1.

    Go ahead and click on fix swap after that.

    Exit, power down, test drive in TiVo.

    If it doesn't seem right, go back and use the other option and try it in the TiVo again.

    If that's even worse, go back and re-run the option first chosen, put it back in the TiVo, and try Kickstart 58.

    After we get the drive most recently used in the TiVo back to where it can be used in the TiVo we'll deal with the other stuff.
     
  12. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    OK I did option 1 and the fix swap, I really don't wanna test out the drive because it's in an external enclosure and I don't wanna un install the drive from it, can I go on to downgrading to the 400GB drive please? thanks

    I want to save the recordings too as well



     
  13. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Click on mfsinfo and copy and paste the results here.
     
  14. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

    Boot Page
    Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
    Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
    Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

    MFS Super Header
    state=0 magic=abbafeed
    devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
    zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951683584

    Zone Maps
    Z0: type=0
    map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=1048574
    next_map_start=525410 next_map_size=9 next_backup_map_start=1048565
    zone_first=1122 zone_last=525409 zone_size=524288 min(chunk)=524288
    free=524288 checksum=2ea2b9e8 logstamp=46263095 num_bitmap=1
    Z1: type=2
    map_start=525410 map_size=9 backup_map_start=1048565
    next_map_start=525419 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=1048531
    zone_first=1048576 zone_last=33189887 zone_size=32141312 min(chunk)=2048
    free=2084864 checksum=cb570c4 logstamp=46263141 num_bitmap=15
    Z2: type=1
    map_start=525419 map_size=34 backup_map_start=1048531
    next_map_start=33190912 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=34239487
    zone_first=525453 zone_last=1048524 zone_size=523072 min(chunk)=8
    free=312144 checksum=4d909e73 logstamp=46301341 num_bitmap=17
    Z3: type=0
    map_start=33190912 map_size=1 backup_map_start=34239487
    next_map_start=33715201 next_map_size=18 next_backup_map_start=34239469
    zone_first=33190913 zone_last=33715200 zone_size=524288 min(chunk)=524288
    free=524288 checksum=795ad211 logstamp=46263095 num_bitmap=1
    Z4: type=2
    map_start=33715201 map_size=18 backup_map_start=34239469
    next_map_start=33715219 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=34239435
    zone_first=34239488 zone_last=77229055 zone_size=42989568 min(chunk)=2048
    free=4061184 checksum=7b06bb23 logstamp=46263095 num_bitmap=16
    Z5: type=1
    map_start=33715219 map_size=34 backup_map_start=34239435
    next_map_start=77230081 next_map_size=9 next_backup_map_start=77231094
    zone_first=33715253 zone_last=34239428 zone_size=524176 min(chunk)=8
    free=494016 checksum=7f65f174 logstamp=46298022 num_bitmap=17
    Z6: type=2
    map_start=77230081 map_size=9 backup_map_start=77231094
    next_map_start=77230090 next_map_size=18 next_backup_map_start=77231076
    zone_first=77231104 zone_last=487322623 zone_size=410091520 min(chunk)=32768
    free=113147904 checksum=a11406cd logstamp=46290111 num_bitmap=15
    Z7: type=2
    map_start=77230090 map_size=18 backup_map_start=77231076
    next_map_start=77230108 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=77231042
    zone_first=487322624 zone_last=975442943 zone_size=488120320 min(chunk)=20480
    free=216698880 checksum=7bf6aad7 logstamp=46263095 num_bitmap=16
    Z8: type=2
    map_start=77230108 map_size=34 backup_map_start=77231042
    next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=2863311530
    zone_first=975442944 zone_last=1951683583 zone_size=976240640 min(chunk)=20480
    free=783052800 checksum=8a76c6a8 logstamp=46263095 num_bitmap=17

    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@75132992 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@75132993 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 262144@75141185 ( 128.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 4096@75403329 ( 2.0M)
    6 Image Kernel 2 4096@75407425 ( 2.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 262144@75411521 ( 128.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 1024000@75673665 ( 500.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 262144@76697665 ( 128.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 1048576@76959809 ( 512.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 32142336@42990656 ( 15.3G)
    12 MFS MFS application region 2 1048576@78008385 ( 512.0M)
    13 MFS MFS media region 2 42990592@64 ( 20.5G)
    14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 1024@79056961 ( 512.0K)
    15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs 1874452480@79057985 ( 893.8G)

    Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 57 % Free
    Software: 6.2a-01-2-381 Tivo Model: not set in MFS
     
  15. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Okay, that looks good.

    How big a hard drive do you have in the computer, the one Windows is on?

    I'm trying to figure out how we're going to manage to go from a bigger drive to a smaller one (and save the recordings, that's going to be the tricky part) when the WinMFS software is basically designed to do the opposite.
     
  16. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    are you sure about WinMFS not able to save recordings?
    http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/
     
  17. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    It can save recordings just fine if you're going from a smaller drive to a larger drive, it's doing it the other way around for which I can't find any documentation.

    If this were a non-satellite TiVo you could use TiVo Desktop to copy them off to computer one show at a time, and copy them back later, but it doesn't work with DirecTiVos.

    I think there is some "hacker" written software that allows "extraction" from sat-TiVos, but that's very complicated, above my head stuff.

    Partitions 10 through 15 are the ones which will have to be shrunk, especially #15.

    I don't know if WinMFS can search inside those partitions or not to determine what's recordings or other TiVo stuff, and what's empty space, or how much computing power it will use to do it if it can, or how long it will take to do that.

    If you've deleted enough shows that what remains is small enough to fit on a 400GB drive, then probably it'll reproduce partitions 2 through 13 exactly as they are and re-write partition 1, which is the partition map that shows which partition is where and how big it is (it's kind of like making the table of contents of a book the first chapter of that book, but that's how the Apple scheme does it--Tivo chose that instead of the DOS/Windows way because they were using the same kind of processor as the early Apples that had hard drives used, so there was familiarity with making the two work together).

    Partitions 1 through 13 are the same as what was on the original 40GB drive that Samsung left the factory with.

    The way Tivo drives get expanded is usually by adding another MFS application region partition and media region partition instead of making the ones already there larger.

    Apparently WinMFS can do some partition size changing that the Linux-based command line interface bootable cd software, MFS Live (successor to the original MFS Tools) isn't designed to do.

    That is, apparently it can make partition 15 bigger, if you're expanding an already expanded drive.

    (TiVo's have a 16 partition per drive limit--and an overall 12 MFS partition per machine limit--so you can't add another MFS pair, that would make 17 partitions on one drive)

    Whether it can do it in reverse I don't know and can't find anything in writing anywhere that says one way or the other.

    We may wind up learning something from your experiences.

    WinMFS will overwrite whatever's on your target drive, so the DOS/Windows stuff on the 400GB doesn't need to be worried about.

    Even when doing "normal" stuff, like going from a smaller drive to a larger one, WinMFS can appear to "freeze" when it actually hasn't and you just have to leave it alone and let it finish what it's doing.

    At this point the only thing I can tell you is try it and be prepared to wait a long time for it to try to do it.

    If it doesn't give you an error message when you tell it to do mfscopy from the 1TB to the 400GB, then I guess it thinks it can, so all we can do is tell it to and see what happens.

    It should make no changes to the source drive, the 1TB, so if it doesn't finish in a day or so, you can stop and not be any worse off and we can see if we can figure out another way to do it while saving your shows.

    Just be sure you get it right when you tell WinMFS which is the source drive, and which is the target.
     
  18. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    I tried it but it never got past 6 bars in the progress screen, I left it running for over 24 hours too, do you think it takes longer then to complete?
     
  19. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know, because I've never heard of anyone trying to do what you're trying to do, and I'm surprised you didn't get a "target drive too small" error message the first time.

    (What you're trying to do would be quite easy if you weren't trying to save recordings)

    You can go here:

    http://mfslive.org/forums/index.php

    sign up for an account, and post a question in the WinMFS Support forum and hope spike happens to still be active enough to see it and respond. If anyone could tell you, it would be him, since he wrote it.

    At least we got the 1TB back where it will work.

    Are you trying to free up that 1TB for other storage duties because the price of a new one is so ridiculous these days?
     
  20. bnm81002

    bnm81002 New Member

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    it seems that the author of MFSlive is no where in sight from the looks of the forums, I wanna use that 1TB drive because its a SATA version plus since I have FIOS service, I don't use Directv anymore, so I was hoping to at least downgrade and save the recordings for future viewing,
    I'm surprised why it wouldn't work since the 400GB drive will have enough capacity for all of the stuff in the 1TB drive, since I did reduce the recordings to a lesser amount to fit in the 400GB drive
     

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