WinMFS can't see new 1TB WD10EURS HD

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by pyork2, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011

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    Had a friend clone my original Tivo HD hard drive to new 1TB WD10eurs, software and recorded programs. Then hooked new cloned hd to windows vista with SATA to USB cord. Rebooted computer, opened WinMFS with administrator priveleges, clicked on file, clicked select drive, select drive window comes up with nothing to select. Have rebooted multiple times with same results. Have searched threads here for similar problem and have not found any. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

    Paul in B.A.
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Can the computer itself see the drive?
     
  3. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    The computer seems to see it as a massive usb storage device. Beyond that I;m not sure.
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    When you say "cloned", exactly what does that mean? Bit for bit copy? Like dd would do? Was the original drive smaller than the new one? If you were going to use WinMFS, why not use it to make the copy in the first place?
     
  5. Stuxnet

    Stuxnet Alien Infidel

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    From mfslive.org...
    Is it possible you broke the bootpage? Did you expose the cloned drive to WinXP?
     
  6. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    Yes the clone was an exact copy of the original. The original was the 160 Gb out of the tivo hd. The new one was 1TB WD 10eurs. The new one was only exposed to winmfs when I went in to try and throw the expand and supersize switches after the cloning. Had friend do the cloning because I did not have two usb to sata cords and his cloner could do the job in about an hour. Transferred all info on old tivo drive including programming.
     
  7. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Did not use mfslive. New drive works great, all recordings transferred over perfectly, problem is tivo still shows only 21 HD hours, same as old drive. Trying to get the tivo to recognize the extra memory.
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    When the drive was cloned, it was copied bit for bit.

    That included the partition map and other stuff at the beginning of the drive, which includes stuff about the size of the drive, so when the TiVo queries the drive, the drive says, "Hi there, I'm a 160Gb drive".

    Of course if the original was a 160GB, then it probably already had all of the partitions on it that TiVo will allow on an individual drive. Since the way you expand onto a larger drive is to create a new MFS partition pair, you can't, 'cause you've already got the maximum number of partitions.

    Before I tell you how to solve your problem, I need to know what size hard drive(s) you have in your Windows computer and how much free space you've got on it/them, whether you have any other hard drives lying around and what size they are, which drives, including new and old Tivo drives, are SATA and which are IDE, and how many SATA hookup places and how many IDE hookup places your Windows machine has, and whether your CD/DVD deck is IDE or SATA.

    While you're waiting for my answer after you post all that info, go download the free version of TiVo Desktop.
     
  9. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    I've got a 222 Gb hd with 152Gb free. No other hard drives around except the original tivo hd 160Gb drive which I am keeping as a backup in case of problems down the road. Both drives for tivo, new and old, are sata. Windows computer appears to only have ide access. Cannot find evidence of any sata ports. I believe there are either 2 or 3 ide ports on the windows machine. Assuming the CD/DVD on same machine is ide. I believe that is everything you asked for. You said the new hard drive received the partitions from the original tivo hard drive in the cloning. I understand that. But I thought that is what winmfs was supposed to fix. It would change the partitions and make the tivo aware of the extra memory, and still not sure why winmfs can't see the new hard drive when I boot up in adminstrator mode. I will download Tivo Desktop now as you suggested and wait to see what you come up with. Thanks much for your help.
     
  10. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to assume that the 222 (an unusual number for a hard drive) is all one partition (you may have a partiton on it you can't see where Windows has a "recovery disk" hidden). It wouldn't hurt for you to tell me the brand and model number of all of your hard drives, your computer's motherboard, and your SATA to USB adapter. Also let me know if you have any USB thumb drives of what size.).

    What I have in mind is for you to install TiVo Desktop and transfer (which is what they call "copy but don't erase the original") all of your shows from the TiVo to the computer (to eventually be restored to the new big TiVo drive).

    For that the 160 will have to be re-installed in the TiVo, or if the new drive convinces the TiVo that it's the original, you could use it instead.

    If it was bit for bit cloned all of the shows should be on it as well.

    However, if it (the 160) is still out of the TiVo, hook it up to the computer and see if WinMFS can see it.

    If not you may need to use the MFS Live CD v1.4 instead.

    The idea is to put a truncated backup image file on your computer's hard drive for future reference.



    This means that the computer and the TiVo have to be able to see each other ethernet-wise, either wired or wireless. Does your TiVo get program guide data from the internet or a phone call?


    You should probably read over the intructions for WinMFS and MFS Live several times and maybe the old Hinsdale guide as well to get an idea of what's going to happen and how TiVo drives are laid out. Just be aware that some of the readme's and how-to's out there have parts which are out of date (but you can still learn stuff from them).

    All of your shows and a backup image are going to crowd your computer's drive pretty badly, so defrag it first.
     
  11. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    Original tivo hd hard drive WD 1600 AVVS 160 Gb

    New hard drive WD 10 EURS 1 Tb

    Can't find any info on the motherboard

    SATA to USB adapter - CablesToGo usb 2.0 to ide or sata drive adapter
    Model # 30504

    No usb thumb drives

    Computer hard drive ST325082 OAS SCSI disk

    Tivo is hooked to ethernet

    After getting your reply I hooked the old tivo hard drive to my computer via the usb to sata cable and ran winmfs. It immediately saw it and gave me access to the controls for "supersize", etc., exactly what I'm looking for for the new drive. Opened up the tivo and hooked the new drive up again, just like I had just hooked the old one, ran winmfs and got nothing.

    I know this is a stretch but I'll mention just in case. Could this have anything to do with the fact I am not taking the new drive out of the tivo before hooking up to the usb sata cable? I'm just taking top off tivo, unplugging hard drive from tivo, and plugging it into the usb sata cable. Can't figure why that would make a difference but thought I would throw it out there.

    I mention again the new drive, other than being a 1TB WD 10EURS, is an exact clone of the original and has been in my TIVO HD for over a week working perfectly, all recorded programs transferred over without a glitch. I have rebooted the tivo several times just because I keep unhooking it to plug the hard drive into the computer to see if winmfs will now see it. But each time I replug in the tivo it boots right up without an issue, except that it is not seeing the extra 840 Gb of memory.

    I got this particular hard drive because someone on a recent thread on this site said they had just purchased it and it was working great for them. Has some little glitch come up with this drive maybe that doesn't allow winmfs to see it?

    When I plugged the old drive into the computer, Vista brought up a window that said the new hardware was installed and working properly and an icon appeared at the bottom of the window showing a usb connection. When I plugged the new drive in the same way no window came up saying it was working properly but showed the same icon at the bottom of the window. Just giving all info I have.

    Can't help but think this is something really simple that I am just missing.

    Also, I am not married to my saved recordings. If I lose those it will now be a big deal. Just want to get that extra memory recognized by the tivo. Thanks for your help

    Paul in B.A.
     
  12. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Let's quit referring to hard drive space as memory. That may technically be accurate, but it's disconcerting, 'cause most everybody means RAM when they say memory. Just call it extra space or extra Gigabytes.

    I'm starting to suspect that your SATA to USB adapter can handle a 160GB drive, but not one as big as 1TB.

    Another possibility is that your motherboard can't handle SCSI or SATA (and that's probably how it interprets a USB-connected drive) drives that large.

    I've got an ASUS Socket A, DDR1 using motherboard that will work with 1TB drives connected via SATA to IDE adapters, but if I hook one up to one of the SATA ports it detects it during boot and just hangs.

    Apparently, even in this LBA48 era, drives have gotten bigger more quickly than a lot of manufacturers forsaw or considered worth worrying about. And since they don't expect you to hit that barrier until long after they've gotten your money, they never bother to document what the limits are.

    You may need to find a friend with a newer motherboard or adapter or both to run WinMFS for you on that 1TB drive.

    As long as the data cable off of the drive connects to the computer where you're running WinMFS (even with an adapter in the middle of that data path), it doesn't matter where the drive itself is, or even whether it's running off of the computer power supply or the TiVo power supply.
     
  13. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    Thanks for your help. I'll let you know if anything works.
     
  14. lillevig

    lillevig Cold in East Iowa

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    Marion, Iowa
    Did you try checking the "Show Mounted Drive" box in WINMFS? If all else fails, go back to your friend and have him use WINMFS to capture the 160GB image and then try installing (and expanding) it to the 1TB drive. You will lose your recordings but you said that is not a major problem. If that all works, then try hooking up the new drive to your computer to see if WINMFS sees it. I suspect that if your friend actually did a bit-by-bit clone then WINMFS is getting confused because of the obviously larger size of the new drive. A clone of 160 to 160 probably wouldn't have this problem.
     
  15. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    I did try the "show mounted drives" box to no avail.

    It has been brought up that my computer may not be new enough to recognize a 1Tb drive. The computer shows it by name "WD 10EURS" in the device manager, and it shows connected as a usb device, but it has also been said that unless the BIOS recognizes it it is not recognized. I have not checked the BIOS yet. I am going to track down a friend with a newer computer and see if that makes the difference.

    My question now, if it is recognized by the newer computer, can I just run winmfs on the larger cloned drive and expand and supersize it on its own, or will I need to rerun the copying process from the original drive to the new drive with winmfs?

    Thanks for your help!

    Paul in B.A.







    w
     
  16. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Whether the drive is recognized as a USB device (when used with a SATA to USB adapter) by Windows is a separate question from whether it is recognized by the computer's BIOS.

    Connecting it via USB bypasses anything in the BIOS that deals with hard drives, and puts the burden on your operating system.

    The only way to test whether it's recognized by the computer's BIOS is to open up the computer and attach the drive directly to one of the computer's SATA ports.

    You may find yourself in the same situation as I do with one of my older motherboards, the SATA controller can "see" the drive during boot, but can't precede from there, presumably due to the drive's size, but attaching it to one of the motheboard's IDE ports via a SATA to IDE adapter lets it recognize the drive and complete the boot process.

    I still suspect that the problem (or at least one of them) lies with your SATA to USB adapter not being able to handle a drive that large. If I'm right, it doesn't matter how new a computer to which you connect it.

    You could download and burn a copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4, boot with that, and see if it can do anything with the drive through your present adapter.

    If so, you could then go back to Windows and see if Disk Management will let you put a partition on the disk. The reason to try MFS Live first is so you can use it to undo anything you do to the drive with Windows.

    This will help you narrow down whether your SATA to USB adapter is the problem or not.

    You really need to open up that computer and find out how many SATA and IDE ports you have.
     
  17. pyork2

    pyork2 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    The box the usb to sata cable came in says " can handle all types and sizes of external drives", "turns any ide or sata drive into an external drive". It is CablesToGo model #30504. So I am assuming it can handle the drive.

    When I plug the 1Tb drive in windows sees it and identifies it by name "WD 10EURS".

    A previous poster said winmfs couldn't see his hard drive on his home computer, which wasn't a recent model, and took the hard drive to work and ran it on one of those computers and winmfs could see the hard drive on that computer.

    Only mentioned the BIOS because a previous poster mentioned it. I believe you said my motherboard might be a problem if it is not new enough. Something like that. Thought I would try a newer computer on the off chance that will work. Hoping to not have to open mine up unless necessary. But will if I have to.

    No one said whether if the newer computer sees the new hard drive if I could make the changes to expand and supersize the clone with winmfs or if I would need to recopy with winmfs from the old drive again.

    Thanks for the help!

    Paul
     
  18. Stuxnet

    Stuxnet Alien Infidel

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    Feb 8, 2011
    I want to share a datapoint that seems to refute this statement.

    I connected a WD20EARS via USB and went into my bios (Phoenix) settings for boot devices... The WD20EARS appeared in the hard drive section as:
    "USB0:WD20EARS... " along with the Hitachi SATA drive that resides inside the PC case. FWIW, the boot settings had separate sections for the optical drive and the USB/removable media.

    That said, if pyork2's drive appears in bios while connected via USB/SATA, then it would appear to me (at my level of ignorance, lol) that the bios is OK. If it doesn't appear in the bios (while connected via USB), then I would do as others here have suggested, and connect it directly to the mobo via sata and see if bios interprets it correctly.
     
  19. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    The bios may see the device via the USB adapter, but that doesn't mean that it does the "translating cylinders, heads, and sectors" work that the motherboard's IDE and/or SATA controllers does/do.

    The SATA (or PATA) to USB adapter may do that, and it may be limited in how big a drive it can handle. When it was new, it might have been able to handle the biggest drives available at the time, but since then drives larger than it can handle could have come on to the market.
     
  20. Stuxnet

    Stuxnet Alien Infidel

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    Feb 8, 2011
    That clarifies things for me, Thanks!
     

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