Why no tivo to tivo for copy protected?

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by brn2rnjk1, Oct 7, 2007.

  1. Oct 7, 2007 #1 of 14
    brn2rnjk1

    brn2rnjk1 New Member

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    I know why you can't share a copy protected program to a computer. But why do the cripple the ability to share with another tivo in your house?
     
  2. Oct 7, 2007 #2 of 14
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    This is because TiVo's policy is not to permit transfers of copy protected content.
     
  3. Oct 7, 2007 #3 of 14
    brn2rnjk1

    brn2rnjk1 New Member

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    Jan 6, 2005
    But Tivo to Tivo wouldn't let me "copy" it? I couldn't burn it or give it away, just watch on another tv in the same house?
     
  4. Oct 7, 2007 #4 of 14
    s2kdave

    s2kdave New Member

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    A copy is a copy. You made one into two. Even though it stays on the tivo, it's still against the copyright. They're trying to stay completely legal. It's really up to the cable co to set the copyright flags appropriately.
     
  5. omni555

    omni555 New Member

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    Oct 3, 2006
    ...I'm a little confused... I have two Series 2 TiVo's, and recently added a new HD TiVo unit. I have noticed from time to time that some of the programs (usually movies from the movie channels, like HBO) have been flagged as copy protected and won't allow me to transfer them to another TiVo unit. I never thought much of this before, and didn't really notice that the copy protection flags were ALL coming up only on my new HD unit! :confused:

    A few nights ago I accidentally scheduled on one of my S2 units recording of a movie that was ALREADY scheduled on my HD unit. After the two instances of the movie were recorded, I noted that BOTH were recorded from the SAME channel at the SAME time. Now the interesting part... :cool:

    When I checked out the contents of the HD unit from the S2 unit, I noticed that it had the CP flag (the red circle with a slash thru it), and it was unavailable for transfer. However, when I went to the HD unit and checked out the contents of the S2 unit, there was NO SUCH FLAG, and I could (and DID) transfer a second copy of that movie to the HD unit!!! :eek:

    Further, when I checked the same info from the SECOND S2 unit (the one which did NOT have this movie recorded on it) I found that I could copy the movie from the first S2 unit, and could copy ONE of the instances of the movie from the HD unit (I assume the one that I had earlier copied to the HD unit)!!! :confused:

    Concerning the comment that "a copy is a copy", are not ALL instances of a program recorded to a TiVo account treated as a single copy??? And since the S2 units allow transferring this "copyrighted" material, does it make sense that the HD unit not be able to do the same? After all, one of the main PERKS of TiVo over its competitors is that programs can be RECORDED on ONE unit and VIEWED on a DIFFERENT unit - such as recording a program in your living room and then relaxing in bed to watch it on the unit in the bedroom... :)

    Does anyone have any further information on this situation? Or know of any LEGAL way that these copyrighted programs can be transferred from the HD unit to another unit (in my case, an S2)?... :cool:

    Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist with this. :up:
     
  6. greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    Slower...
    Your HDTivo recorded a digital version and its copy protection flags were set differently (by your cable company) than the analog version.
     
  7. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

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    One reason that the same prohibition applies to MRV as TTG might be that there are software-only hacks for the Series 2 (the equivalent hacks for Series 3/HD still require PROM mods, last I heard) that allow bypassing any restrictions. So, if any show could be freely MRV'd, then a TTG-prohibited show could be transferred from an S3 to a hacked S2, and from there, extracted to your computer.
     
  8. omni555

    omni555 New Member

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    Oct 3, 2006
    ...Please forgive me if I sound a little dumb here, but wouldn't BOTH recordings of the movie be digital since both were recorded from HBO (ch 240)? Or maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by "digital version"...

    Also, if the flags are being set by the cable company, then obviously I wouldn't expect TiVo to rectify the problem. But since BOTH "copies" were recorded from the same source at the same time, and at the same quality (the file size for both was the same), doesn't it seem more likely that there is something on TiVo's end that is causing this?
     
  9. greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    Slower...
    The HBO signal recorded by your S2 was digital coming coming down the wire to your cablebox. Then it went analog when it was outputted to your S2 Tivo. Your S2 digitized it again by re-enconding it to MPEG2.

    On the other hand, your HBO signal stayed digital the whole path from your cable company straight to disk on the S3.

    Why your cablebox doesn't output the copy protection flags on the analog output I don't know. But I suspect it is because it is analog and they don't care as much. But I am just guessing and will be corrected I'm sure. :)

    (I realize now I am saying something different than before, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;))
     
  10. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    Ontario Canada.
    No, the "Copy" is per DVR, not account. It is just that copy protect flags, or lack thereof, permit duplication, which, as said, a TiVo transfer is, MRV or TiVo To Go doesn't matter.
    The rules are set by the provider, at least for premium content. It makes sense a direct digital recording from the cable signal not be copyable, because it is 100% the quality provided by the cable provider. An "analog" recording is degraded some, plus passes through the "analog hole".

    Copy protection permitting.
    If TiVo were to stream instead of copy, or erase the "original" as the copy is made, so at one particular time only one copy exists in one place at a time, perhaps cable would allow transfers.

    Otherwise, TiVo has to honor the copy protect flags presented to it, and not allow copying.
     
  11. flynndt

    flynndt New Member

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    Jan 17, 2008
    Newburgh, NY
    Upgraded to Series 3 HD Tivo recently (have 2 Mcards installed) and found that every channel except a couple of the major networks were flagged. I contacted TWC and had to persist all the way to a supervisor, but after several days I got a call back saying the flags would be removed off the rest of the major networks (ABC, NBC), but almost everything else is still flagged. I complained that even PBS was flagged, so this was removed along with the Discovery channel. My series 2 box never had a flag and I could transfer anything to my PC. Interestly enough, the same show on Discovery is flagged on the Science Channel. So I contacted TWC again, but don't know if any more flags will be removed. Anyone else have this problem? Not trying to make DVD's or anything, just want to keep some great shows on History Channel and Science Channel to watch later and watch on either Tivo. Haven't reconnected the old S2 Tivo yet (I need to figure out the wireless networking part), but they took my old box and gave me a new HDMI box. Right now I'm wishing I had never upgraded and made any of these changes as I'm not able to do anything that I purchased the new Tivo box for. Any suggestions?
     
  12. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    This is the reality of the digital world: It is not much more likely that content will be copy protected because digital copies don't show degradation from the original.
     
  13. flynndt

    flynndt New Member

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    Jan 17, 2008
    Newburgh, NY
    This flag seems to be coming from the cable company though, and it's on a channel wide basis. For example, on the history channel there's a series called History Channel Classroom which specifically states it can be recorded but that copies must be destroyed before a particular date (usually about 2 yrs later). At first the cable company said the flag comes in the broadcast from the network and they have nothing to do with it. If this is so, how were they able to take off the flags that I pointed out legally shoudn't be there (i.e. the major networks). It doesn't make sense that some people have no problem with flags using the same equipment than others. I've pointed out to the cable company that I'm not talking about the premium channels like HBO, etc. - just what comes in the basic digital package.
     
  14. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

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    They're liars. Take it to your local franchise authority.
     

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