What is the latest on the HDR issue?

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream 4K' started by ListedGuru, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. rczrider

    rczrider Active Member

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    Again, to each their own. Anyone who thinks this device is anything but DOA is kidding themselves and I'm not sure why (maybe they're sentimental or feel their investment in the company warrants overlooking TiVo's mistakes). TiVo has set deadlines and missed them. They're unresponsive to user requests. Customer service is awful.

    There are new devices on the horizon. Once those are out, the TS4K will become even less popular than it is now. And if TiVo isn't going to support it as they should (because they haven't), good riddance. I, for one, will dissuade anyone from purchasing one until TiVo indicates that they're actually interested in supporting it.
     
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  2. MScottC

    MScottC Well-Known Member

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    And you're entitled... but it works for me. I have an LG Smart TV, that gets most services, but to get other services I was using a older Roku (HD only, no UHD). I wanted a way to watch those streaming services in UHD, The TiVo Stream for $50 covers most of the bases, and the old Roku moves over to my old 720p 26" office tv. I'm a satisficed camper.

    And add the benefit of the Stream portion grouping a lot of my services into one App... I'm even happier.
     
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  3. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Eh, if you're a video purist and you really want to correct for the TS4K's forced fake HDR, then you'd need a pro calibration for your TV's HDR display profile for the TS4K's HDMI input. And even then, you'd end up with colors that look right for content intended to be viewed as SDR rec.709 but that look incorrect for native HDR bt.2020 content. You have to calibrate for one or the other.
     
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  4. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    And now it works extremely well with Channels DVR with its remote integration so appears to be the best one stop solution for a Live Streaming “cable” TV with all the popular apps available on the same device. It is what I was hoping this or the AT&T TV device would be from the beginning.
     
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  5. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    This is also incorrect. Perhaps you should learn how Color gamut mapping works. I gave you an example that they use right now with UHD Bluray players and discs, and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have to make any new, separate settings, memories or modes. If you setup and calibrate to the bt2020 Color gamut and profile, it will work correctly whether the source maps rec709, P3 or full bt2020 into said color gamut.

    This is exactly why you can plop in a UHD Blu-ray Disc mastered to P3 Color points and it will display it properly, and then throw in one that is either rec709 or wider and closer to bt2020 and it’ll also map and look correctly.
     
  6. ListedGuru

    ListedGuru New Member

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    What devices that are on the horizon are of interest to you? I'm the op here and I was really interested in the TS4K but the always on HDR (even on non 4K content) is a deal breaker for me. If they get that fixed here soon I may give it another look. I'm looking forward to the new Google device code named "Sabrina." Hopefully they do a good job with that. I'm looking for a good quality all around android streamer. I thought the TS4K was going to be it but I'm in wait and see mode. I've heard great things about the Nvidia Shields but they are a little rich for me.

    -Guru
     
  7. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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  8. ListedGuru

    ListedGuru New Member

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    So are you saying the always on HDR even on non 4k stuff isn't a big deal in regular viewing? Doesn't it make everything look overly saturated and cartoonish? I'm just going by what I've read online.

    -Guru
     
  9. rczrider

    rczrider Active Member

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    IMO, the only Shield worth buying is the $200 Pro (ie. the expensive one, though I think it frequently goes on sale for $180 or so). The cheaper one is for folks who think they want (or need) a Shield but couldn't tell you why. The expensive one is for a small subset of people who actually need the power, though that doesn't keep a bunch of people from buying it just so they can say they have one.

    On the horizon, primarily, is Google's Sabrina (aka Chromecast Ultra 2). I'll be surprised if it releases for less than $70 (the current Chromecast Ultra price). And there's the question of when it will come out. It could be as late as October.

    The Mi Stick TV 4K was rumored to be out soon, but Xiaomi has made no mention of a 4K variant and so far has only released the crappy 1080p stick. My guess: they've got a store of Mi Boxes they want to get rid of, first. Who knows how long that'll take.

    There's always the AirTV Mini. It's essentially the TS4K, but actually works because it has competent developers behind it and wasn't abandoned a month after release. Of course, it's $80, so it comes down to whether you want to shell out the extra $30 for a device that works out of the box and will continue to get updates or save $30 for something that will likely not get any better than what it already is.

    Roku sucks no matter which device it is, so I wouldn't consider them worth having. That's why I recommend the Fire TV Stick 4K for $25. It'll probably get you by until a device that the TS4K could have been comes out. Of course, as others have mentioned, if you need the 2 streaming services that are currently Android TV exclusives and sideloading scares you, it's a non-starter.

    This doesn't have a "correct" answer because it's just personal opinion. Personally, I didn't buy a nice TV so stuff can (unnecessarily!) look like garbage on it. Some people claim they don't notice it over-saturation and generally cartoonish image.

    I've heard some people don't notice the "soap opera effect" that comes with true 120Hz refresh, either, but those people are also neanderthals who should have stuck with their tube TVs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  10. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    Not if the device and/or TV maps the gamut right and it’s setup properly.
     
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  11. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    Yes it does have a correct answer. I explained the Hows and whys.

    Do you notice UHD Blu-ray Discs mastered at P3 inside a bt2020 container being over-saturated and cartoony? You shouldn’t if you do, for the exact same reasons.
     
  12. compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    My ATT box does the same thing and I was able to adjust my LG to tone down the HDR being forced. Looks fine. Now when they fix it I will have to re adjust
     
  13. ListedGuru

    ListedGuru New Member

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    I believe I read somewhere that the airtv mini has the always on hdr 'bug' too?

    -Guru
     
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  14. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    That's because the UHD BD player knows how to correctly map. It's making the necessary adjustments before sending the video stream out to the TV.

    In the case of a TS4K and your TV, what's doing the mapping? Obviously not the TS4K. Is your TV? I can tell you that if my Apple TV 4K is set to force all output in HDR10 (doing essentially what the TS4K does) and then I stream something that's natively SDR Rec.709, the color and contrast don't look great on my LG OLED (which has no choice but to display the content in an HDR10 profile). The colors are over-saturated, the blacks are crushed, etc. Now, I could tweak or calibrate the picture settings for the HDR10 profile for that HDMI input to try and tone down the color and contrast to try and make the fake HDR content look as close as possible to its original SDR Rec.709 format. But that's not the same thing as color gamut mapping.

    So what are you doing to your TV to ensure appropriate color gamut mapping with the TS4K?
     
  15. rczrider

    rczrider Active Member

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    I addressed this, but my post was removed and I was warned for calling your response "stupid". Apparently it's not "stupid" to think opinions are the same as facts. So let's be clear (because otherwise feelings get hurt and I don't want a mod to get upset): I don't think you or your opinion are "stupid". I believe you are unaware of the difference between opinions and facts. That's probably a failure on the part of public education, and that makes it unfair of me to assign your mistake to a lack of intelligence.

    The fact is that I have 3 HDR-capable streaming devices (Fire Stick 4K, Mi Box, Roku Ultra) that I have used with an HDR- and DV-capable TV (TCL 65R617). When I had my TS4K, that made 4 devices. Of them, only the TS4K couldn't manage to make non-HDR content look good. It did the opposite: it made the picture look bad.

    Now, to say it looked "bad" is an opinion. You seem to be struggling to understand the concept, since you don't realize that your "Hows and whys" constitute an opinion about the acceptability of the image. The post you quoted of mine was in no way a technical discussion; it was about how the TS4K makes non-HDR content look (subjectively) worse than the other streaming devices I have used.

    Again, it's an opinion. You may think that your opinion constitutes fact, but it doesn't.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  16. compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt use the Budget R617 TV as my source of what a good picture looks like
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  17. jakep_82

    jakep_82 Member

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    I have the same question. Actual DV and HDR10 videos look fantastic on my LG CX. SDR content viewed with the TS4K in forced DV or HDR10 looks pretty terrible. The colors are oversaturated and unnatural. Whatever is doing the color gamut mapping (if anything at all) is doing a terrible job.
     
  18. compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    You can change those settings on your CX
     
  19. rczrider

    rczrider Active Member

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    Well, for one, I have the 65R625 (same line, but a year newer and with a better panel). My mistake.

    From rtings: "This TV has excellent color gamut. This is expected, as the quantum dot color used to produce a wide color gamut was one of the main advertised features of this TV." In your defense, they also say: "It's a noticeable improvement over the TCL R617".

    And in any case, we're talking about the picture coming from a $50 streaming dongle. If you think a $1100 set (MSRP, so of course I didn't pay anywhere near that) can't possibly do the TS4K justice - or despite all evidence to contrary, it's the TV that's the problem - I'm hesitant to give your opinion very much weight. You might have a point if we were talking about a $200 Seiki from Walmart, though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  20. jakep_82

    jakep_82 Member

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    If I adjust my HDR settings to make SDR content from the TS4K look right, then actual HDR content looks terrible. This isn't a solution for me, and it's why my TS4K is not currently connected to my TV.
     
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