What does a MOCA compatible modem do?

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by RedCab, Sep 13, 2016.

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  1. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    Hi,

    I'm going to switch to MOCA because one of my two tivos is connected by a Wireless N adapter which is "low performing".

    My (comcast service) gateway / modem is an Arris T6862G. It claims to be "MOCA Compliant".

    Does this mean that it has the built in functionality such that I won't need a splitter and Tivo Bridge on my cable "inlet" ? That would be great if it turns out to be true!

    Anyone with a setup like this care to comment? Many thanks!!!

    JR
     
  2. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    I can't find any information about the T6862G. But the T862G, if that's what you really meant, should indeed be able to create your Moca network if Comcast hasn't disabled it, as they have been known to do. It would be helpful to know what model Tivo devices you have.
     
  3. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    Thanks for catching my mis-type... the gateway is an Arris TG862G , not T6862G !

    On my network I have:

    Roamio, connected by wired ethernet.... all good
    Premier, connected by wireless N adapter... not so good.
    Stream, connected by wired ethernet.... usually all good.

    My intention is to add a Tivo Bridge in front of the Premier to take advantage of MOCA and ditch the wireless N adapter.

    1. Will I need a 2nd Tivo Bridge in between my wall coax inlet and the cable gateway or (if I'm lucky) will my existing gateway will perform that function? What do I have to do to enable the TG862G gateway to play MOCA? I don't see a setting in the Comcast provided GUI.

    2. Should I move the Roamio that works well on wired Ethernet onto MOCA as well? My understanding is that MOCA is "built-in", but I didn't find a selection in the menus. I saw a document that indicated the Roamio could function as a MOCA/Ethernet bridge and I think that would mean I wouldn't need the Arris gateway to be the bridge. If this is a real choice, is there an inherent advantage to choosing one device over the other as the bridge?

    2b. In either case, should I install a POE filter? Where? If I'm at my wall near the gateway (where I'd install the Bridge) , I'd have to go further upstream to get to the splitter where the coax is distributed to the Tivo's.

    One nit in my topology that may or not have bearing... The Arris gateway is connected directly to a wireless router that distributes the ethernet across the house. (I don't use the gateway's router capabilities other than to pass along signal to the router)

    Many Thanks,

    JR
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    It depends on which model Roamio you have. The 6-tuner Roamio Plus and Pro models include built-in MoCA bridging capability, as do the BOLT models and 4-tuner Premieres. The TiVo Mini can connect to a MoCA network as a client, but cannot bridge between coax/MoCA and Ethernet.


    Given a choice, and budget not being an issue, I prefer my MoCA bridge to be a device that reboots as little as possible, so as to avoid MoCA network interruptions. So my order of preference is standalone MoCA adapter, cable gateway*, and then MoCA-bridging TiVo DVR; however, the choice is usually driven by device location and access to the needed coax and Ethernet connections, and the relatively high cost of MoCA adapters.
    * Note that employing a cable gateway as the MoCA bridge is often complicated by cable provider control.​


    Yes, you *will* want to get a "PoE" MoCA filter installed, and it would normally go at your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) to your home, ensuring MoCA can flow throughout your coax lines but is blocked from escaping back out onto the provider's lines.

    More on PoE MoCA filters here: Why? & How?


    That's a critical nit, as it sounds like your cable gateway has been configured to operate strictly as a modem, removing the ability to use the gateway as your MoCA bridge. (To bridge between coax/MoCA and Ethernet, the gateway would need access to both your coax lines and "home network" Ethernet LAN ports, but, as you have it configured, your home network ports are over on the wireless router, inaccessible to the TG682G.)

    You'll definitely need to use a MoCA adapter or TiVo DVR to create your MoCA network.
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    p.s. Sometimes "MoCA Compliant" just means the device can function without issues if connected to coax lines having an active MoCA network. For example, some modems or tuning adapters that are NOT MoCA compliant become unstable when a MoCA network is activated, requiring MoCA filters to be installed on their coax inputs to block MoCA signals from entering the device.

    You're good, so just the one MoCA filter is needed at your PoE, to secure and strengthen your MoCA signals.
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    For future reference, here's an example of what you *might* have had to deal with, if looking to activate MoCA on a Comcast-controlled cable gateway:
    Others on TCF have suffered with having MoCA on their Comcast-supplied gateways being periodically disabled, until they learned of this secret "whitelist" procedure for preventing the automatic disabling of MoCA.

    And, yes, only the bolded portion is relevant to the post's topic, but I figured I'd include the rest of the quote as it provides some good qualifiers as to other things you'll need to look at in your coax topology if you have difficulty establishing MoCA connectivity.
     
  7. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    According to Arris this gateway has no "MoCA Technology" inside. See the "Specifications" tab at the Arris link.
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Fun DSL Reports thread discussing someone else's experience with MoCA and the TG862:

    If the OP is renting this gateway from Comcast, it would seem they should be able to upgrade from this "XB1" gateway (see here) to an "XB3" gateway (see here) that does support creation of a MoCA network -- along with improved wireless network support. Of course, taking advantage of the additional features would require a change in the relative functionality of the Comcast-supplied gateway and the OP's wireless router, so a gateway upgrade may be moot if the OP requires that it simply be configured as a modem.

    From the "about XB2/XB3" page:
    On the other hand, if the OP doesn't have voice service with Comcast *and* they want to continue using their wireless router as their main Internet router, then they may want to look into buying their own simple cable modem, to eliminate the monthly gateway/modem rental fee from their Comcast bill.
     
  9. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    I am a Comcast TiVo user who had problems with MoCA being disabled every couple of days. Took a while to figure it all out, but eventually got Comcast to install a POE filter and add my modem to a whitelist so they don't flash it any longer to disable it. Works like a charm now with my Roamio Plus and Mini. KrKaufman, you helped me a lot in squaring it all away, thanks!
     
  10. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    That's interesting that the spec page say "No Moca".
    I saw this review of the unit that said "Yes Moca" ! : https://turbofuture.com/computers/Arris-TG862G-telephony-modem

    I'll report my findings when I get things set up.... since I don't see any Moca mentioned in the gateway's GUI, I'm with you, betting "No Moca".
     
  11. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    Thank you all for those insights.

    I'm going to assume that the gateway is not going to help with the Moca.

    SO, one question left... see image... where should I insert the 2nd Bridge?

    [​IMG]



    https://app.box.com/s/fd0080e6afo0ultznbk8c4ndpdz6eeki


    (trying to link to topology map I've linked to on BOX.com... let's see if that works)

    JR
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  12. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    I'd go with A, but either is fine.
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Agreed w/ mdavej that either location would work, and your PoE MoCA filter installed on the input to your first splitter ensures that your MoCA signals would flow across all your coax lines, but not out of the home. Check!

    That said, the one advantage of locating your main MoCA adapter at location "B", with the Roamio, is that doing so would allow your TiVo-to-TiVo Mutli-Room Viewing/Streaming (MRV/MRS) activity to continue uninterrupted should the router require rebooting.*
    NOTE: If you locate the main MoCA adapter with the Roamio in Room2 (location "B"), and are simply looking for the best possible MoCA connection between your TiVo DVRs in these rooms, without regard for MoCA extending to any other rooms, you could install your "PoE" MoCA filter, instead, on the input to the splitter feeding Rooms 2 & 3.

    Of course, you'd need to relocate the PoE MoCA filter back to your main splitter if you ever wanted MoCA beyond Rooms 2 & 3, so hopefully you'd remember this if/when the bridge is crossed.​


    * p.s. FYI... With the main MoCA adapter located at "A," connected through the Ethernet LAN ports of the ASUS RT-N66U, the Ethernet connection on the MoCA adapter would drop during a router reboot, breaking the connection between the Roamio and Premiere; however, location A would be just as suitable as location B, relative to this issue, if the main MoCA adapter in Room 1 and "HUB" in Room 2 were connected via Ethernet, instead, to a standalone Ethernet switch in Room 1, which would then be connected via a single Ethernet cable to the ASUS router.
     
  14. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    Great input, thanks!

    If I go with location B, does the Ethernet output of the Room 2 bridge get plugged into the Roamio? Or into the Hub? (both are accessible and close).
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    So, yes, you'd need 2 total MoCA adapters for what you're looking to do; however, given that you appear to be primarily looking to simply enable wired networking for your TiVo DVRs, and that both DVRs' Ethernet ports are limited to Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps), buying 2 TiVo Bridge MoCA 2.0 adapters might be overkill at $80 per adapter.

    Your best fit (both technically and possibly economically*) would be grabbing a pair of Actiontec ECB2500C MoCA 1.1 adapters ($120), equipped with Fast Ethernet ports matching the specs of both DVRs. The other benefit of using the ECB2500C adapters is that they include an RF/TV Out coax port that would allow you to connect your Roamio & Premiere to your coax lines via pass-through, rather than having to install an additional splitter at each location to connect the MoCA adapter and DVR separately.

    - - -
    * On the economics front...
    • Note that the TiVo Bridge is just a rebranded Actiontec ECB6000 standard MoCA 2.0 adapter (capable of 400+ Mbps, but overkill for 100 Mbps Roamio/Premiere connections)

    • The Actiontec ECB6200 bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter is capable of 800+ Mbps -- and so even more overkill for TiVo MRV/MRS.

    • As an alternative, some have had luck using these Yitong standard MoCA 2.0 adapters (400+ Mbps) ($115). Might be worth it, given the bonus speed *and* RF/TV Out ports, at $5 less than a pair of ECB2500C adapters.

    • Unfortunately, the recent Actiontec MoCA 2.0 sale has ended, but you might find the pricing links included in the following post useful for comparing products & prices:

     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This MoCA adapter would need to be plugged into the "HUB" device (which would ideally be an Ethernet switch, at least matching the specs of the Ethernet port on your MoCA adapter, either Fast Ethernet or Gigabit), in order for the adapter to provide the bridge between your coax/MoCA segment and your Ethernet LAN, with your Ethernet LAN being extended to Room 2 via that long Cat5 run under the house to the "HUB" device.

    The Roamio and ASUS RT-N12D1 access point devices would would both remain connected via the "HUB," as well.
     
  17. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    Thanks for the economics input... I have a Tivo bridge on order for ~$75... now that I know I need 2 bridges and that the v1.1 compatible hardware will work just fine I may just take the path of saving a few bucks.

    One more question on my topology comes to mind... Let's say I put the 2nd MoCA adapter at point A.... is there any performance reason to put my Roamio on a MoCA bridge as well? I understand having a 3rd bridge in the network ups my $ investment, but will having both Tivos on MoCA providenoticeably better performance than having one on 100M ethernet and the other on MoCA?

    There's a lot of internet to device streaming going on in my household (2 people on netflix to ipads simultaneously let's say) and I was thinking having both Tivo's on MoCa would off load the 100M ethernet network... but maybe there's plenty of bandwidth to go around and I shouldn't worry about it? What's your opinion?

    JR
     
  18. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you have gigabit ethernet as far as I can tell. More Moca would be a waste of money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The one mystery is the brand/model of the device labeled "HUB." If it's a Gigabit Ethernet switch, then, yeah, the OP has a GigE "backbone" between Rooms 1 & 2; if it's a Fast Ethernet switch (or worse, an actual hub) then there'd be room for improvement.

    As an aside, from what I can tell, the ASUS RT-N12D1 is only Fast Ethernet, so any wireless devices connecting through that access point would be limited to 100 Mbps connections, regardless of the speed of the "HUB."
     
  20. RedCab

    RedCab Member

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    HUB = Trendnet Gigabit Switch ... sorry for leaving that as a mystery!
     

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