What can/can't the TiVos with cable cards get/do?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by gastrof, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. Feb 4, 2012 #1 of 24
    gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

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    Potato and pen.

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    Are there ever any cases where they can't record a channel or program/movie, forget about transferring to another TV or a computer?

    Are they still unable to get PayPerView and OnDemand type programming, or is that now ironed out?

    Yep, I'm thinking about getting a current box and going Lifetime, and want to dot all the eyes and cross all the teas before deciding. (Anyone who makes comments on how I spelled that last part will be gifted with private messages of my poetry for at least a week. :D )


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  2. Feb 5, 2012 #2 of 24
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    I got rid of my cablecard Tivo because I didn't like the way it worked regarding the On Demand and menu systems.


    The On Demand controls would lag like crazy. Sometimes when you press too many FF/RW/Skip...it either "queues up" however many command times it wants and does it in either single skip or "blocks" with playback in between...or it skips all the way to the end of the movie for no reason and you have to start the move from the beginning! LOL

    And it doesn't cache menus...not even when you've actually been there, so unless you have like a perfect internet connection (think wireless) it would lag like crazy too. I think they could have made this better, either by storing a bit of data on RAM or HD even so it will be smoother because menus don't change that often and don't take up much space.

    This is with RCN at least. Not sure if it's similar with other providers.
     
  3. Feb 5, 2012 #3 of 24
    gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

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    I think you're forgetting that you're talking to someone who doesn't have a cable card TiVo.

    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    Are you saying they DO allow you to access OnDemand and PayPerView programming now?

    Baby steps, neighbor. Baby steps!
     
  4. Feb 5, 2012 #4 of 24
    gteague

    gteague golftango

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    i'm not sure what the previous poster was on about. afaik, except for some beta test-markets, you cannot access on-demand or ppv with type 's' or type 'm' cable cards. at least that's the way it is in my market, time-warner for north texas.

    i'm sure someone else with cable knowledge will chime in, but my understanding it that the cable cards we are using are one-way comms only.

    /guy
     
  5. Feb 5, 2012 #5 of 24
    AnthonyWeiner

    AnthonyWeiner New Member

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    empty post
     
  6. Feb 5, 2012 #6 of 24
    hoyty

    hoyty Member

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    Except in those markets where the cable company provides the TiVo (RCN comes to mind) things like OnDemand and PPV can't be done from the TiVo. In some markets you can activate the PPV via web or phone and watch on TiVo (I am not 100% sure on recording PPV). All normal channels can be recorded by TiVo with CC though.
     
  7. Feb 5, 2012 #7 of 24
    HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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    No issues here with Comcast in VA. Have 2 of the original Series 3 units with CableCards and we get all channels and actually can transfer most except for HBO and I think some of the other movie channels between TiVo's and to the PC (even though you mention you are not interested in that). No PPV or OnDemand as mentioned. If your cable company has implemented SDV you will need a Tuning Adapter to get all channels (not needed here so I have no experience with it).

    What are you currently using?

    Scott
     
  8. Feb 5, 2012 #8 of 24
    WVZR1

    WVZR1 Active Member

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    The WV...
    You might try disclosing your "location" and your "provider"!
     
  9. Feb 5, 2012 #9 of 24
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    It's not a matter of ironing anything out. FCC regulations expressly allow the CATV companies to refuse to support VOD and IPPV, so they rarely, if ever, do. Any TiVo outfited with a TA is perfectly capable of receiving VOD and IPPV. It is nothing more or less than a matter of CATV company policy that they cannot.
     
  10. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    It has nothing to do with CableCards.

    That is perfectly incorrect, as well evidenced by the fact the CATV leased boxes have no problems with VOD or IPPV using identical CableCards to those supplied to TiVo and other UDCP devices. All CableCards support two way communications.
     
  11. rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    OK since you just don't believe it for whatever reason because it's soooo imposible that TiVo can have On Demand because the TiVo is soooo much more "advanced" than any other DVR out there that TiVo makers consider it "beneath" them to offer On Demand many years ago when it existed for everyone else and up until now they can't possible have changed their mind...


    http://www.rcn.com/new-york/digital...enericHome--Spot1--new-york--2010-04-15--TiVO

    "Access to RCN ON DEMAND (over 10,000 hours of ON DEMAND"
    "Search TV listings and Video ON DEMAND offerings"


    But you still won't believe that they have VOD, HBOOD, MAXOD...even though this site has beem selling it for ever... No...it's not to "test customers" only. It has been offered as a normal service at full retail for longer than I can remeber.


    I'm not sure if TiVo got ppl like you to believe that the only way TV should be watched is by recording a broadcast so you will buy a TiVo and no other DVR that has ON Demand capability or something....Thus TiVo doesn't need VOD. But wake up...even TiVo is subject to market forces and they have to go with the flow or perish because not everyone will believe the hype forever. :rolleyes:
     
  12. gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

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    Potato and pen.
    Okay, if you CAN order VideoOnDemand, even if by phone, what channel would you watch it on? Is there a way to find out? Is it always the same channel?


    That suggestion isn't exactly in step with usual rules of thumb regarding use of the internet.

    My question is regarding the general "cans" and "can'ts". My specific location and provider isn't necessary. I'm asking about the TiVos, not about my local provider.


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  13. rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    Someone in another thread said that only specific providers allow it. They install a software that gets it to work via "requesting" the OD stream via internet.

    I don't think OD is on any specific "channel". My guess is that they reserve a bunch of "channel-would-be's" for OD movies where they will use this area to feed individual boxes.

    So the TiVo would have to connect to say...RCN servers, tell them to send some movie, tune to some random "channel" specified by the server.

    Other DVR's I believe, does this all through the cable-line two-way. It prolly doesn't tune to some random channel as well and instead reads packets and constructs the video as it enters the buffer. Someone said they use a DOCSIS modem or something.
     
  14. takeshi

    takeshi Member

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    No need for the snark. The post you're replying to wasn't saying that VOD support was impossible for Tivo to implement. It actually states that it is possible with RCN as an example (ironically you attempted to use RCN as a counter argument) if you bother to actually read it rather than just assume what it says. It merely pointed out that it's currently not possible except in certain situations and that is correct unless you have information that indicates that we can somehow enable VOD where it currently isn't supported.

    Someone in this thread did as well. :rolleyes:
     
  15. WhiskeyTango

    WhiskeyTango New Member

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    I think you are confusing the fact that Tivo's provided by the cable provider and those purchased retail, are not the exact same product. Regular Tivo's, right now, can not access VOD. Tivo has entered into agreements with a few cable co's in order for the Tivos to access the VOD content. They can however get PPV, you just need to call your cable co to order it and then tune the Tivo to the PPV channel.
     
  16. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I don't use VOD, but I believe the answer is that the program guide data furnished to your TiVo lists all the channels that might be available, including VOD and PPV (? not sure about PPV). For example there are premium packages like HBO and Showtime (not POV or PPV) that I don't subscirbe to. Nevertheless they are in the program guide. You just go into Channel setup and mark those channels as ones you don't receive. I definitely see VOD channels in my lineup -- I just mark them as ones I don't receive. Channels so marked don't show up in the on-screen program guide.
     
  17. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    This is total horse crap. The FCC regulations specifically state the CATV companies are not required to provide IPPV or VOD (or any interactive services other than regularly scheduled SDV channels) to third party devices. It is black letter law. Since they are not required by law to do so, the vast majority do not. The TiVo is perfectly capable of it. It doesn't require any additional software or any modifications to the TiVo. All that is required is that the CATV companies allow it. They do not. The vast majority only support it on their own devices.

    What, exactly, is your point? The TiVo, when coupled with a Tuning Adapter, is perfectly capable of providing VOD and IPPV services. The CATV companies don't allow it. How is that TiVo's fault?

    What advantage of any significance is there to any other method? The TiVo is perfectly capable of receiving and recording VOD and IPPV service, but even if my CATV provider allowed it - which they do not - I wouldn't be taking advantage of it. I didn't do so when I was a CATV employee, and had them available for free.

    1. Name three other DVRs one can purchase.
    2. Name any purchased DVR that is supported by any significant number of CATV companies for VOD and IPPV.

    What a load of bull fritters. Market forces don't change the law. Until the FCC changes their regulations, the CATV companies are extremely unlikely to allow VOD and IPPV on any 3rd party DVR. If and when they do, the Series 3 and above TiVos will support it out of the box.

    Do yourself a favor and quit rolling your eyes until you have eliminated your vast ignorance of the situation.
     
  18. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    While true, it's not directly relevant to this issue. The only relevant fact WRT this issue is that their TiVos have certain specific VOD and IPPV features disabled, while the 3rd party TiVos do not. Without disabling those features, the CATV copmpany would not allow the TiVo to receive VOD and IPPV. Most simply don't allow it, period.

    They aren't allowed to access VOD.

    The point is, it is the CATV company that prevents the access to the TiVo, and the Moxi, and any HTPC, etc.

    Some providers allow this. Most don't. Note that IPPV does not necessarily require switched video, and it doesn't even require interactive communications if the customer is allowed to call up and order the event by phone. If the CATV provider desires, they can put IPPV video on a regular linear QAM, in which case two-way communications are not required, and thus a TA is not required. All that is required is the CableCard.
     
  19. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    Either you mis-read the post, or else they had no idea of what they spoke. Interactive communications on UDCP devices like the TiVo require a tuning adapter. That's hardware, not software. Most CATV companies provide TAs free of charge. Even with the TA, however, most companies do not allow VOD or IPPV on 3rd party devices, which includes the TiVo.

    I suggest you quit guessing. You're not terribly good at it. Go read up on SDV in the forum. No SDV service is fixed to particular channel. Indeed, no digital service is fixed to a particular channel, per se, but the linear QAM modulators are not served by a switched input, so their sources don't change from moment to moment.

    That part you got right, except the channel isn't "random", unless by "random" you mean that it is not fixed or determined a-priori. That's how SDV works.

    You believe wrong, if you are speaking of a consumer owned device. To my knowledge, all 3rd party devices are UDCPs. It really would not make sense for them not to be. What use would it be to purchase a $500 DVR that wouldn't work if one moved to another city, or in some cases across town?

    All UDCPs access SDV via a Tuning Adapter. The TA, of course, interacts with the CATV company's SDV servers via an upstream channel on the cable.

    Please do the rest of us a favor and learn to spell "probably".

    While you're learning to spell, you might read up on digital video before posting such nonsense. SDV is no different from any other digital video stream. The only difference is the stream simply does not exist until requested. The QAM is not "random". It is one selected by the SDV server because it is unused or in some cases is carrying a lower priority stream. It's true that the frequency and timeslot are not pre-determined. If the video stream is already in progress, the receiver is merely instructed to tune to the existing stream. If not, then the server selects an unused timeslot (or one with a low priority stream if no unused ones are available), instructs the device to tune that timeslot, and starts broadcasting the requested stream on the specified timeslot.

    The technology for the negotiations is the same as is used by DOCSIS modems, and in fact the TAs were developed from DOCSIS hardware. The video stream is not anything a DOCSIS modem would recognize. It is carried on a standard video timeslot on an ordinary digital video carrier. The negotiation between the DVR and the headend for video assignments is carried out over what is essentially modified DOCSIS hardware. This is true for all devices, not just 3rd party DVRs. It is the same for the leased DVRs and STBs. The difference is the leased devices have the upstream modulators built-in, while the 3rd party devices have to employ an external device (a TA) to supply the upstream communications.
     
  20. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    The one listed in the guide. See the response by WhiskeyTango above.

    That depends on the CATV provider. Some have one or more guide / advert channels. Some output their IPPV channels in the clear with ads for upcoming events when a program is not underway.

    Again, you are asking provider specific information. Most systems have multiple IPPV channels. Some have IPPV events on VOD channels.

    That's nonsense. Specifying your city and provider doesn't give any significant personal information, unless you happen to live in a town with a population less than 20.

    No, they are not. The questions you ask have different answers depending upon who your provider is and in many cases the local franchise rules.

    It is if you want the answers to your qustions.

    No, you aren't. The questions you are asking apply to all UDCPs, not just the TiVo, and the answers are different for different providers. Most of them have entirely to do with the policies of the local branch of the CATV provider. There are some exceptions, though. For example, the TiVo is not physically capable of receiving the interactive services on a Verizon FIOS system, because Verizon employs IPTV for its interactive services, not SDV. Verion supplies fiber to the curb, and with that topology, IPTV makes more sense, both technically and financially, than SDV. Virtually all CATV systems employ fiber to the node and coax to the curb. With that technology, SDV makes more sense than IPTV.

    'Sorry, but they are about your local provider. The features about which you have questions vary from provider to provider.
     

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