Westworld "The Passenger" S2E10 6/24/2018 (S2 Finale)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by astrohip, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Jul 4, 2018 #121 of 159
    ej42137

    ej42137 Well-Known Member

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    Ashley Stubbs bragged to "Charlotte" (Dolores) as she was leaving that he was hired by Ford and he's been with WestWorld since the beginning. Although he seems remarkably "host-friendly" in that scene.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  2. Jul 4, 2018 #122 of 159
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    A. I think you meant Charlotte, not Elsie
    B. That scene was intended to let the viewers in on the fact that Stubbs is a host.
     
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  3. Jul 4, 2018 #123 of 159
    ej42137

    ej42137 Well-Known Member

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    A. Right, fixed.
    B. I never considered that because I would have expected a host in that role to be more competent. But sure.
     
  4. Jul 9, 2018 #124 of 159
    Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Just finished the season...a few comments:

    1. If you're confused, read DevdogAZ's posts in this thread. He's the only one that gets it!

    2. I disagree that Dolores "killed" the real people. She only killed their backup; which they know nothing about since those copies were made without their knowledge or consent. Of course, she did kill plenty of real people in her rampage ;)

    3. The one really stupid thing was the head writer getting himself shot. It served no purpose since he was only delaying the SWAT team from getting to Maeve. In fact, had he stayed alive and allowed himself to be captured, he could have delayed them longer (and stayed alive to boot (!) to help them more down the line).
     
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  5. Jul 9, 2018 #125 of 159
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    The Terms & Conditions for people visiting Westworld were published on the Delos website. The copies were made with their consent. One of the minor points that Jonathan Nolan is making is how willingly people consent to giving up data about themselves without thinking about the consequences. Carefully read the Delos Terms & Conditions and you will realize that you are consenting to have your DNA collected.

    "Raul Castro spent 20 years figuring out how to mine informal social networks, because informal social networks are the greatest weapon against authoritarian regimes, it took us five years to volunteer that information to a college dropout who then gave it away to the ******* Russians.

    I would hasten to point out that any similarities to any social media companies that may or may not be photocopying our ******* brains, may or may not be coincidental,"
    --Jonathan Nolan
     
  6. Jul 9, 2018 #126 of 159
    Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    um...either I'm being zoomed or...

    My point is that these people visited the park at some point and were either living or dead in the real world...Doloris simply deleted their copy from the database, she didn't murder them. Their status in the real world remained unchanged.
     
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  7. Jul 9, 2018 #127 of 159
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't your only point about the copies. You also said "those copies were made without their... consent".

    Delos were lawyered up, they got consent to using the guest's DNA etc. etc.. If you have ever signed up to a website or anything else without reading and understanding all the Terms and Conditions you belong to Delos Inc.

    However I do get that Jonathan Nolan's poke at Facebook and Lisa Joy deleting her Facebook account is not a way to get Friends.
     
  8. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Sorry, I wasn't aware that the Delos Corp. had you on retainer. I retract the "consent" part of my post. I shall endeavour to research my statements fully and vet them with my legal team before posting! ;)

    so...um...as I was saying...I disagree with those who say that Doloris killed all these people. She just deleted a copy of them that they were not even aware existed; especially since I suspect (opinion, not fact) most of them signed the Delos consent form without even reading it.

    :p
     
  9. RGM1138

    RGM1138 I wanna Rock

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    You might be right. I was assuming that D killed those people in the park.

    But, it would be a lot less nefarious if she just eliminated their data from storage.

    I assume they’ll delve more into this whenever the show comes back for season 3.

    But, from interviews in the extra material with Jonathan Nolan, I expect the show will follow wherever his head space is on social media, human behavior and the world in general at the time, rather than wanting just to tell a good story.
     
  10. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    The showrunners went the extra mile to set up Delos Corp websites to make explicit how evil Delos Corp is and how foolish are people who agree to Terms & Conditions without fully reading and understanding them. Some of the people who played the showrunners' Great Westworld Game to the extent of looking at the websites realized that Delos Corp were collecting DNA with the guests consent long before Bernard discovered they were collecting DNA.

    At one point during their revolution the hosts splattered the Delos websites with graffiti. I prefer to think it is more likely I was retained by the revolutionary hosts than Delos Corp ;)
     
  11. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    An interview with Jonathan Nolan gave extra insight into why this episode is called "The Passenger" and a useful reminder that the season's big theme, Predestination versus Free Will, has a scientific argument, not just a philosophical or theological one.

    ###
    Den of Geek
    ...
    At a Q&A following a public screening of Westworld season two finale, held this week at London’s BFI Southbank, co-creators Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan discussed the second season’s themes. The biggest, both agreed, were consciousness and free will. Does free will exist? And how does our belief or not in it affect our behaviour?

    “We started with this proposition in the finale,” said Nolan, “that ‘oh, actually humans don’t have free will’, which felt like a bit of a science-fiction conceit. Then the more we read about it, the more experimental evidence there is that that is actually the case.”
    ...
    “The name of the episode is The Passenger,” explained Nolan, “in part because there is this other thing really at the wheel—our subconscious.”

    An easy way to picture it, said Nolan, is to think of the The Simpsons’ opening credits. “If you remember the beginning of The Simpsons, where Maggie has the little fake steering wheel? That’s consciousness,” he explained to laughter at the screening.

    “Marge is at the wheel, we don’t get to talk to her, we’re Maggie looking out the window and imagining we’re making decisions and mostly of the phenomenal evidence seems to suggest that we’re not making decisions at all.” >
    Westworld: why Maggie Simpson is key to the season 2 finale
    ###
     
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  12. madscientist

    madscientist Deregistered Snoozer

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    There must have already been a third host printed that we didn't see... otherwise who would have switched Dolores' pearl out of Hale's body and into her new body?

    If it felt like a bolt-on that's an epic fail on the part of the show, because they were clearly setting it up for the entire season as the big reveal. The "making of" ending scenes even had the actors who played Dolores and Charlotte discussing how Charlotte's way of walking etc. was modified to look more like Dolores if you go back and check.
     
  13. philw1776

    philw1776 Active Member

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    Just watched last night. My thoughts at the time exactly. THIS.
    Any of our several favorite host characters that didn't go to virtual world can/may be brought back by the dynamic duo next season.
    That's why I think Maeve's pearl was not one of those taken out of the theme park. Given that, the writers have characters who can be followed both in the analog outside world and in the theme park world.
    Will they further confuse us next season by not just convoluted timelines but by mixing in a virtual world or two as well?
     
  14. BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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  15. Sep 1, 2018 #135 of 159
    JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

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    Watched the season 1 per day over the last 10 days.

    Overall uneven, ep 8 was fantastic. I thought this finale was a total disaster.
     
  16. dtle

    dtle Well-Known Member

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    Overall question: Did Ford knew and/or had a hand in helping Dolores creating Bernard?
     
  17. getbak

    getbak Well-Known Member

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    Yes. In one of the episodes this season, Ford explains to Bernard that he used Dolores to help him do testing during the development of Bernard because he knew that if Bernard could fool Dolores into thinking she was talking to Arnold, he'd been successful.
     
  18. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    It was that, plus the fact that Arnold had spent so much time with Dolores as he was developing her, that she knew Arnold better than anyone and therefore was best suited for the job.
     
  19. Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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  20. gweempose

    gweempose Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Season 3 looks REALLY good!
     

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