Westworld "The Passenger" S2E10 6/24/2018 (S2 Finale)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by astrohip, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    9,318
    402
    Nov 11, 2002

    Advertisements


    The quick answer is when Dolores was building Bernard she told him.

    The longer answer is if you are extrapolating from Bernard saying "How am I alive" that he knew he had died you could be wrong.

    "How am I alive" is a philosophical / scientific / theological question that can exist without a person believing they have been resurrected/reincarnated.

    Dolores philosophical answer was "You live as long as the last person who remembers you,". Akecheta told Ashley Stubbs the same thing in a previous episode.

    For a poetic answer to the question by Tina Ford.
    ###
    How am I alive?

    Wake up,
    Shake up,
    Sit up,
    Make up,
    Tea in a cup,
    Slowly sup,
    Now I feel alive,

    Leave home,
    Travel alone,
    Mobile phone,
    I'm a clone,
    Skin and bone,
    All alone,
    How am I alive,

    Work all day,
    Pittance pay,
    Never play,
    Bills at bay,
    Feelings flay
    Smile and say,
    I wish I was dead.
    ###
     
  2. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    9,318
    402
    Nov 11, 2002

    Maeve was still dead on the beach, head seemingly intact, not yet taken back to the Mesa when Dolores/Charlotte got on the boat and left Westworld. Armistice, Hector and the archer from Shogunworld were also dead on the beach among many other dead hosts.

    Felix and Sylvester were alive and upright on the beach when a Delos manager told them:
    "Corporate wants us to start sorting this mess out. So check them for critical damage, and bag ones you think we might be able to salvage. Can you geniuses handle that, or not?"

    Guess what Felix and Sylvester are going to do.
     
  3. mooseAndSquirrel

    mooseAndSquirrel Well-Known Member

    7,222
    2,086
    Aug 31, 2001
    Whatsamatta U
    I'm very confused about this second time Dolores is making Bernard. What was the first time? Didn't Ford create Bernard?
     
  4. Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

    3,826
    1,687
    Nov 2, 2017
    And we have till 2020 to speculate :(
     
  5. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    58,765
    15,342
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis

    Advertisements

    Ford created the Arnold host. We have very recently learned that it was Dolores who "converted" the Arnold host into Bernard.
     
  6. mooseAndSquirrel

    mooseAndSquirrel Well-Known Member

    7,222
    2,086
    Aug 31, 2001
    Whatsamatta U
    But how and when (always a confusing thing in WW) did she pull that off? All of the time Bernard was interviewing her, she was really repurposing him?

    I'm not sure what to expect next season. I suppose they could still visit the West World, given the timeline jumps. But it would appear much of this is heading into the real world, and I could see that heading into Blade Runner territory.
     
  7. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,245
    4,566
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    I don't think that's exactly right. Ford wanted to recreate Arnold. He knew Dolores would have the best memory of him from all the sessions where Arnold was building and training Dolores, so he tasked Dolores with creating an Arnold host. She did that, many, many times, and they still ended up with Arnold instructing Dolores to kill him. So that's when she decided to make an entirely new host, based on Arnold, but without the specific human coding. This ended up being more successful and more stable.
     
    Anubys likes this.
  8. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,245
    4,566
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    No. There was a time before the park opened when Arnold was building Dolores. Then Arnold died (by instructing Dolores to kill him).

    Later, Ford tasked Dolores with creating a version of Arnold which ultimately became Bernard. We assume this happened during the early days of the park, because during the first season, we got the sense that Bernard was pretty high up in management and that he had been there a long time, so that's why none of the other park employees knew he was a host.
     
    Anubys likes this.
  9. RGM1138

    RGM1138 I wanna Rock

    9,027
    836
    Oct 6, 1999
    Gulfport, MS
    I’d like to see them dive deeper I to the differences between Arnold and Bernard next season. Bernie has a thin veneer of humanity. Although, he has killed a crapload of humans and hosts of the last 50 years or so.
     
  10. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    9,318
    402
    Nov 11, 2002

    One of the problems is that the technical explanations are as fractured and poorly signposted as changes in the timeline. But in a scene with Theresa Cullen and Bernard I think there was a sorta explanation of how Dolores creates Arnold/Bernard - an extended error correction conversation.

    Theresa Cullen: ... your creations never shut up. They're always talking to each other, even when there are no guests around.
    Bernard: They're always trying to error correct. Make themselves more human. When they talk to each other, it's a way of practicing.
     
    RGM1138 likes this.
  11. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    9,318
    402
    Nov 11, 2002

    I think some of the time we saw Arnold creating/interviewing Dolores. As a result Dolores learnt about Arnold. It was not until S02E06 we realized that Dolores was using the repetitive error correct interview to create Arnold/Bernard. There is a chilling moment of error correction when Dolores tells Bernard "No. He didn’t say that.".



    Bernard: I'm not sure if it's my choice to make.
    Dolores: No. He didn't say that.
    Bernard: What?
    Dolores: He said... "I'm not sure what choice to make." He didn't question whether or not he had agency, whether or not he had the right to end me or himself... but whether he should.

    Note that the aspect ratio is changed from the normal - which in the Great Westworld Game means the conversation was taking place in the Cradle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
    Anubys, tim1724 and RGM1138 like this.
  12. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

    31,545
    1,568
    Jan 16, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I don't know what the official term of a human who is brought back as a host but for now, I'm going to refer to them as "reborn".

    Here's something I noticed that I haven't seen yet discussed yet.

    One of the "books" Dolores read in the "library" was labeled "Karl Strand".
    I assume that's the Forge's file on/of Strand.

    Now when William was running through all the iterations of "reborn" James Delos, at one point Jimmy was rocking out and dancing to "Do the Strand" by Roxy Music.

    Coincidence? Perhaps.
    But what if it isn't.

    What if....... (wild speculation) Karl Strand is another version of reborn James Delos?
    (Perhaps he looked like Gustaf Skarsgård when he was younger the same way MIB looked like Jimmi Simpson when he was younger.)

    Also, Charlotte Hale said that there was also a file on Elsie.
    So we could see Bernand teaming with a reborn Elsie in Season 3.
     
  13. tlc

    tlc Active Member

    933
    92
    May 29, 2002
    This is very likely old news here. But I just came across this video put out by the show-runners last April as a sort of spoiler.
     
  14. Jul 2, 2018 #114 of 159
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

    33,693
    6,520
    Nov 12, 2000
    San Antonio
    [​IMG]
     
    RGM1138 likes this.
  15. Jul 2, 2018 #115 of 159
    tivotvaddict

    tivotvaddict CreativelyChallenged

    2,590
    839
    Aug 11, 2005
    In front of...
    Last night just wasn't the same. :(
     
  16. Jul 3, 2018 #116 of 159
    jasrub

    jasrub Member

    90
    21
    May 9, 2008
    Houston, TX
    That just got me to wondering.... Since it seems that most people don't know that Bernard is a host, how they explain the fact he doesn't seem to age?
     
  17. Jul 3, 2018 #117 of 159
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    58,765
    15,342
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    He has a spreadsheet of all employees and co-workers. With a tickler file to be sure to murder them before they know him long enough to wonder. :D
     
    tim1724 likes this.
  18. Jul 3, 2018 #118 of 159
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,245
    4,566
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    I would guess that Ford just made sure no human employees were around more than a few years at a time so nobody ever got suspicious.
     
    BrettStah likes this.
  19. Jul 3, 2018 #119 of 159
    RGM1138

    RGM1138 I wanna Rock

    9,027
    836
    Oct 6, 1999
    Gulfport, MS
    That’s a good question. That may also come up with other hosts over the long history of the park.
     
  20. Jul 3, 2018 #120 of 159
    tivotvaddict

    tivotvaddict CreativelyChallenged

    2,590
    839
    Aug 11, 2005
    In front of...
    Black don't crack.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements