Westworld "The Passenger" S2E10 6/24/2018 (S2 Finale)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by astrohip, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Jun 26, 2018 #61 of 159
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    Although there is a small ambiguity, a suggestion that Dolores constructed Bernard not from a pearl but from her memories. At the end of the episode in the real world house.
    ###
    Bernard: Is... is this now?
    Dolores: Yes, Bernard. This is now. We're at the beginning. We're exactly where you decided we should be.
    Bernard: But... I don't understand. How am I alive?
    Dolores: You live as long as the last person who remembers you, Bernard. I remembered you once before, so I remembered you again.
    ###

    At the beginning of the episode:
    ###
    Bernard: Is this now?
    Dolores: This is a test. One we've done countless times before. You're almost the man I remember. But there are flaws. A word, a gesture... tiny fracture that grows into a chasm. But I wonder. All these tiny imperfections in each copy. Mistakes. Maybe we should change you.
    ###
     
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  2. Jun 26, 2018 #62 of 159
    3D

    3D Active Member

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    It did look permanent, but that could just be because the daughter moved into a new world.
     
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  3. Jun 26, 2018 #63 of 159
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Seems like a lot of effort if that's what she did. Why not just take his pearl when you had the chance? Or maybe she did, but his pearl was corrupted, and her training of him was just to reset him to a working state.
     
  4. Jun 26, 2018 #64 of 159
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    The clue was that when MiB got in the elevator to go down into the Forge and then we saw the elevator open inside the Forge and it was empty. The MiB we'd been seeing throughout the season was real, he really killed his daughter, and he really had his hand blown off. Then he went and got medical attention and at some point in the future, his consciousness is loaded into a synthetic body and he is sent out into the park to relive that final journey to see if he can make better choices and end up not killing Emily. But he's been running this loop (probably) hundreds of times, and every time he has had the same outcome.
    Bernard was never a real human. Arnold was real. They tried to recreate Arnold and ran into problems. So Dolores created Bernard, who was very similar to Arnold, but with enough differences to avoid the problems they had of putting a human consciousness into a synthetic body.
     
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  5. Jun 26, 2018 #65 of 159
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Whoops, you're correct, that was a bad example. Let's use James Delos, a "once human". His consciousness has been "inserted" into a manufactured body that looks just like his real body. So he's not a host, in the pure sense of the word.

    What do we call him?
     
  6. Jun 26, 2018 #66 of 159
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    I would call him exactly the same as any other host.

    It's not James Delos's consciousness. It's their (unsuccessful) attempt to duplicate his consciousness. It's an artificial consciousness in an artificial body...i.e., a host.
     
  7. Jun 26, 2018 #67 of 159
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    I disagree. It is James Delos' consciousness. That's why he has all of Delos' memories and doesn't realize his body is not his own. The whole reason they're having problems incorporating the consciousness into a synthetic body is precisely because it is Delos' consciousness and not an approximation, a la Bernard.

    I would call them hybrids to distinguish them from hosts. So far, the only hybrids we know about are Delos (in the test lab), William (in the future), and Emily (in the future).
     
  8. Jun 26, 2018 #68 of 159
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    I disagree with your disagreement. ;) It is an attempted recreation of Delos's consciousness. It is an approximation in exactly the same way that Arnold was an approximation. The problem is, they can't make an approximation work, so instead they build a new personality (i.e., Bernard).
     
  9. Jun 26, 2018 #69 of 159
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    Dead
    "He's dead, he's no use to me" — Delores
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  10. Jun 26, 2018 #70 of 159
    te36

    te36 Member

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    Hah! Always a fun discussion. How about if you go through a star trek transporter ? Also an attempt at recreation ? Sheldon thinks so:

     
  11. Jun 27, 2018 #71 of 159
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    According to Elsie "Bernard, you're not in control. Ford buried so much bad code in you," Bernard killed Theresa Cullen his former lover by repeatedly slamming her head against a wall, he kidnapped his friend Elsie and humiliated her with a bucket.

    Dolores putting in the effort to do a clean install of her modified Arnold is definitely worth it.

    Perhaps she learnt a few short cuts along the way but last time Dolores created a version of Arnold it took a minimum of 11,927 trials. I think we should assume the scene in the real world with Dolores, Bernard and the skin of Charlotte Hale took place some time after Dolores arrived back in the real world.
     
  12. Jun 27, 2018 #72 of 159
    robojerk

    robojerk Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing the Hosts have perfect memory like a computer, if so the Bernard programming is in her memory.
    Ctrl + C
    Ctrl + V
     
  13. Jun 27, 2018 #73 of 159
    kaszeta

    kaszeta $nullstring TCF Club

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    Although with Bernard we've seen that the indexing can get all messed up.

    One of my favorite pair of lines from the episode:

    "How long will it take you to sort through 20 years of memories?"

    "Uh, 20 ***** years?"
     
  14. Jun 27, 2018 #74 of 159
    NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    yes, but that was done purposely.
     
  15. Jun 27, 2018 #75 of 159
    wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    Oof! You forgot the Ctrl + A.
     
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  16. Jun 27, 2018 #76 of 159
    wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    Put me in the minority of those who did not like it. I like shows that make me think, but this one appears to be extra convoluted on purpose. The whole "Charlotte is actually Dolores" thing really felt like a bolt on. The Utopia for hosts was cheesy and made me think of late 80s Star Trek.

    I loved Memento, but this is a whole other level. Just get back to telling really interesting stories which compel you to think, but not simply think about what just happened.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  17. Jun 27, 2018 #77 of 159
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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    This should clear things up:
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Jun 27, 2018 #78 of 159
    tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Well-Known Member

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    So as long as we are asking silly questions, in the final scene, we see Delores in hew newly printed body talking to the newly printed Bernard, but outside the cubicle, we see Charlotte Hale as well. So who's in Charlotte's body? Are there two copies of Delores?
     
  19. Jun 27, 2018 #79 of 159
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we know the answer to that.
     
  20. Jun 27, 2018 #80 of 159
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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