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Westworld speculation and theories *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by pgogborn, May 9, 2018.

  1. May 9, 2018 #1 of 51
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    In the Westworld "Virtu e Fortuna" S2E3 5/06/2018 thread some excellent speculation was posted in spoilers - that Grace is Man-in-Black's daughter.

    When the use of spoilers was queried a user replied
    I love the speculation, I agree it should not be seen as a spoiler but I also know that folks can get triggered (how the triggers work in Westworld work is open to speculation but exploding heads can result :))

    I thought I would give a dedicated speculation and theories thread a try. To begin with my most insane theory.

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    Karl Strand is repeatedly looping Bernard in an attempt to extract information. He has walked Bernard along the beach at least three times. Bernard sees the same host shot twice, sees Rebus appear but the previously shot host is missing from his position in the lineup / on the ground.

    When Charlotte said to Karl "Did you bring me what I asked for? and Karl replied "No luck yet" they weren't referring directly to Peter Abernathy they were referring to Karl looping Bernard.
     
  2. May 9, 2018 #2 of 51
    kaszeta

    kaszeta Ceci n'est pas une conserve TCF Club

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    To repeat my earlier comments:

    1. Something odd is going on there, especially since Bernard has an off-camera shirt change (he's in black in the Drone lab, white when looking for Abernathy), but he's still got the temple scar. That gives us four versions of "Bernard" we've seen in new footage in S2:

    a. Washed up on beach, "I killed all of them" Bernard (White shirt, no scar)
    b. Searching for Abernathy with Charlotte Bernard (White shirt, temple scar)
    c. Visiting drone lab after the party from hell Bernard (Black shirt, temple scar)
    d. Bernard sitting in a lab talking with Dolores apparently having flackbacks Bernard

    To throw a random wrench into things, Ford wasn't surprised at all to see Bernard at the Party. I suspect some of his behavior may be scripted by Ford.

    To throw another wild wrench into things, way back in S1E1, most of the times Bernard is talking with Dolores and Abernathy, he's (a) rubbing his temple, and (b) in the Abernathy scenes, appears to have the temple scar (although it may be lighting). Wondering if there's a long game here. (Although we know that Ford and Bernard have been through "Bernard discovering his origins" before, and probably having been directed to kill himself before. I suspect that either he's been patched up several times, or replaced[1])

    Final random idea: Bernard's not looping, but getting weird signals since he's mesh-communicating with other versions of himself[1]?

    [1] A bit surprised that they don't have ready-to-go backups for many of the more popular hosts, if for no other reason than giving them more time to patch up Unit A while Unit B is in the field.
     
  3. May 9, 2018 #3 of 51
    cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Well-Known Member

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    The previously shot guy is definitely there when Rebus gets shot. He’s facedown behind Rebus with his feet closer to Rebus than his head.
     
  4. May 9, 2018 #4 of 51
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    I had the thought that he could be mesh-communicating with other hosts on the beach standing in different places but I put it toward the bottom of my list of my ideas because Bernard had implied that bandwidth on the mesh was limited (but he could be lying). The idea that he is mesh-communicating with other versions of himself is intriguing.

    Bernard's acquired brain injury causing Cognitive Dissonance, Time Slippage, Aphasia and Prosopagnosia and turning him into a false narrator was originally at the top of my speculation list, I am now replacing it with he is being deliberately looped.
     
  5. May 9, 2018 #5 of 51
    RGM1138

    RGM1138 I wanna Rock TCF Club

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    I know it’s not likely, but it is possible that some of the continuity issues are from the editor using different takes of the same scene.

    I’ve seen it done before in movies with a recall of an earlier scene.

    But, with Westworld, you never know.
    :)
     
  6. May 9, 2018 #6 of 51
    getreal

    getreal postcrastinator

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    No, I think that what could be taken as continuity errors in THIS show will turn out to be clues about the jumping timelines. I went back and binged all of S1 and now appreciate all of the "continuity errors" (e.g., Dolores' constantly changing wardrobe between the homesteader dress and the cowgirl jeans and shirt which also helped determining that she was talking with Arnold or Bernard).
     
  7. May 9, 2018 #7 of 51
    ct1

    ct1 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    I don't recall much wardrobe when she was talking with Arnold...
     
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  8. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    In season 1 Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy were not completely happy the non-robots around the coffee machine decrypted the clues so quickly but said it was a "testament" to the "meticulous attention" their crew paid to "continuity" etc.

    This season they could be salting the playing field with red herrings.


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    ^ Bernard on beach
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    ^ Bernard in Fort Forlorn Hope
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    ^ Bernard on beach
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    ^ Bernard in Fort Forlorn Hope

    It is not only on the beach that Bernard seems to be repeating the same experience.

    I can't tell if the chairs are the same, the tents are different but in both locations are in front of a hill and are associated with supplies in military style boxes.
     
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  9. kaszeta

    kaszeta Ceci n'est pas une conserve TCF Club

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    Yeah, I'll have to rewatch, but that's a bizarre chair to have in a late 1800s fort...
     
  10. kaszeta

    kaszeta Ceci n'est pas une conserve TCF Club

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    Okay, I've figured it all out:

    S2, at least from Bernard's perspective, is all an elaborate dream.

    Towards the end of the season, we'll hear all sorts of rumors of Theresa Cullen and Elsie Hughs coming back, and everyone will wonder how that will work since we saw Bernard kill both of them...

    But in S3E1, Bernard will wake up, see Theresa in the shower, and realize that most everything since Trompe L'Oeil was a dream.

    No, a show would never do that...
     
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  11. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    :) Because I am an anorak I get the shower reference (but you do not have to be an anorak to get the reference).

    I previously mentioned Elsie is my favorite Westworld human, she has the best combination of cleverness and decency of them all.

    I am sure she will soon return. If so is Bernard glitching? Are we glitching? Is there a covert third force operating in the park rescuing multiple humans?

    I reminder of who Elsie is for people who do not share my fandom.

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  12. kaszeta

    kaszeta Ceci n'est pas une conserve TCF Club

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    Elsie was one of my favorite characters. Especially since she's sarcastic.

    I'm pretty sure we'll see her again.

    And if Stubbs isn't a host, we'll see a similar story of how he's still around.

    I suspect that just since Stubbs ran into the Ghost Nation, he's still fine. I think the Ghost Nation is either under Ford's or someone else's control, so the new Katja Herbers character will probably be just fine as well.

    That said, all sorts of weird things going on in the park even before this. Of random loose ends I can think of:

    1. What happened to Elsie, if she didn't get strangled?
    2. What happened to Stubbs?
    3. What exactly was up with the weird, bullet-proof hosts that were part of "Wyatt's" contingent?
    4. If Maeve was expected to "Infiltrate the mainland" (from her code), what was her actual goal?
    5. Why *can't* they just transmit stuff from the park? Charlotte had at least a low-bandwidth connection out.
    6. What are the other 3 parks?
    7. Did Ford make other "unknown" hosts? Who was he making in the RDF when they found it?
     
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  13. RGM1138

    RGM1138 I wanna Rock TCF Club

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    Season 3.
    :D
     
  14. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    I don't understand the point of this thread. People are still going to be posting speculation in the regular episode threads. The excuse about someone being "triggered" is complete BS. People who participate in the episode threads know that there will be speculation. If they don't want to read the speculation, they know not to participate in the episode threads. All this thread does is create a place for conversations to be duplicated for no good reason.
     
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  15. kaszeta

    kaszeta Ceci n'est pas une conserve TCF Club

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    The only thing I see that could be different here is that previews of future footage may be fair game.
     
  16. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    And didn't pgogborn start a separate thread for that stuff as well?
     
  17. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    Excluding people from participating from the episode threads is a tad harsh.

    One of the co-factors I considered in creating this thread was somebody mentioned :
    "I stopped reading the threads here at some point last year because I decided I preferred being surprised when things popped up in the show".
    That is a valid point and this thread could be a compromise to encourage overall participation, so far in my opinion this thread has tallied enough views to wash its own face as yet another thread.

    Yet another co-factor I considered in creating this thread is that in terms of filtering data it can be advantage to gather some of the more obscure stuff about a season arc in one place when a season is broken down into episode threads.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  18. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    When the Ghost Nation was seen approaching the vulnerable Katja Herbers character is was a sort of Rorschach test game for all of us. My money is on that they are going to rescue her, not ravish her.

    If she is James Delos' granddaughter is is even possible that they are directly under her control.

    Usualy when William / Man-in-Black mentions that he owns the park he then adds the qualification that he is only the majority shareholder.

    My speculation is that James Delos gave his granddaughter shares to limit what his son-in-law could do. James Delos' granddaughter is in the park because of her love for her grandfather, her hatred of her father and is protecting a particular interest of her grandfather that is tied up with the park's big secret.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  19. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    But if she had any level of control over the park, none of what happened to her in this episode would have happened to her...
     
  20. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    I see this thread as a part replacement for my Westworld trailers & next episode previews *spoilers* thread.

    This show is one of riddles but in the next episode the concept appears in the title - "Riddle of the Sphinx".

    Westworld co-creator Lisa Joy is the director's chair, Jonathan Nolan the other co-creator is in a writers chair.

    My prediction is the next episode will be particularly awesome.
     

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