Watchmen 1x08 "A God Walks Into a Bar" 12/8/19

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Rob Helmerichs, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. Dec 8, 2019 #1 of 29
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    55,769
    12,417
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis

    Advertisements

    Just a heads-up...there's a several minutes-long extra scene after the closing credits, and it's pretty important.
     
  2. Dec 9, 2019 #2 of 29
    getbak

    getbak Well-Known Member

    2,235
    528
    Oct 8, 2004
    Calgary, AB
    A God Walks into Abar.
     
    LlamaLarry, smbaker and madscientist like this.
  3. Dec 9, 2019 #3 of 29
    madscientist

    madscientist Deregistered Snoozer

    4,817
    398
    Nov 12, 2003
    Lexington, MA
    This episode really banged us over the head with the timeline. So, it seems Veidt was sent to Europa 10 years ago, and the last scene with him in prison was 3 years ago (there were 7 candles on the cake). I suppose it takes him three years to dig himself out and send himself back to Earth (assuming that whatever crashed into the farm was Veidt) which is pretty damn good since most NASA ships these days take 6 years to make the trip. Maybe starting there with a much bigger gravity assist would make it feasible?

    I really, really liked the fact that it was Angela that got Judd killed... speaking across time through Dr. Manhattan is a very interesting idea and that's the kind of timeline gotcha that I love.

    It's clear that John could have saved himself from being sucked away: he could have just vaporized the machine along with exploding the Kavalry's heads. I wonder if they'll go into why he didn't do it (a la Dr. Strange handing over the infinity stone to Thanos).
     
  4. Dec 9, 2019 #4 of 29
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    55,769
    12,417
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    Well, Jon knows whatever happens next... ;)
     
  5. Dec 9, 2019 #5 of 29
    MikeMar

    MikeMar Go Pats

    45,816
    1,023
    Jan 7, 2005
    Boston...

    Advertisements

    Man another awesome episode

    As someone who hasn't read the comic but knows all the general broad strokes, asking this for anyone that HAS read the comic

    It seems at this point that they have basically explained everything that anyone that hasn't read the comics really needs to know. I know there were complaints by people that they were so lost since they never read or know anything about the comic, but it seems this show really covers what you need to know.

    And how they handled time in this ep was really cool, as Madscienst said, crazy that Angela got Judd killed just then
    And they covered how Angela survived the 2nd 7K member on the White Night and what happened to Calvin that night as well
     
  6. Dec 9, 2019 #6 of 29
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    55,769
    12,417
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    Yeah, I've said it before...I think people who think they are confused because they haven't read the comic are really confused because that's just the kind of show this is...it lets out information at its own pace.
     
    dianebrat and MikeMar like this.
  7. Dec 9, 2019 #7 of 29
    OhFiddle

    OhFiddle Active Member

    457
    185
    Dec 10, 2006
    Chicago Burbs
    I was confused after the first couple of episodes because it just seemed like they were throwing a lot of disjointed characters and stories at us all at once. I thought I was confused due to my lack of knowledge about the previous Watchmen material. After those first few episodes though it did start to all come together and they seemed to spend more time fleshing out the characters and their stories, which made it much more enjoyable for me. Although, it seems like they maybe started making a concerted effort to make the show less confusing and maybe went a bit too far at times. I noticed starting in the Looking Glass focused episode that there were a lot of little "flashes" inserted to remind us of what happened just minutes earlier in the show. I don't need quite that much hand-holding. Now I'm really hoping it does get another season!
     
  8. Dec 9, 2019 #8 of 29
    logic88

    logic88 Well-Known Member

    16,863
    1,381
    Jun 7, 2001
    Land Of...
    I'm kinda meh on time paradoxes like those. Seems like lazy writing to me.

    The Veidt of the graphic novel was supremely confident of his righteous path. Would he really turn into the unhinged Veidt as portrayed by Jeremy Irons?

    And I'm still curious how everyone seems to know that Manhattan's weakness is tachyons.

    With only one episode left, I'm suddenly a little dubious they can tie up all of the loose ends.
     
  9. Dec 9, 2019 #9 of 29
    Ereth

    Ereth Unemployed Bum

    45,717
    3,773
    Jun 16, 2000
    Jacksonville...
    AFTER the credits? I don't watch credits so I missed that one (trying to avoid "Next week on..."). Thanks for the heads up, I'll go back and watch the post-credits now.
     
  10. gossamer88

    gossamer88 UHDTV Snob

    12,579
    1,254
    Jul 26, 2005
    Da Bronx
    I had to google the significance of the horseshoe in the post credit scene. I'm still confused... Otherwise another great episode and interesting that Angela is responsible for Judd Crawford's death.
     
  11. MikeMar

    MikeMar Go Pats

    45,816
    1,023
    Jan 7, 2005
    Boston...
    Is it anything more than just him digging his way out of there Shawshank style?
    So he got beamed there in 2009
    It's been 7 years
    He has 3 years to go, can he dig out in < 3 years, probably :)

    And the Phillipes kept trying to hand him a horseshoe instead of a knife and he said "Not yet!" so somehow he knew (maybe Dr. Manhattan told him or something?)
     
  12. gossamer88

    gossamer88 UHDTV Snob

    12,579
    1,254
    Jul 26, 2005
    Da Bronx
    I read that and get it I guess. But why a horseshoe? It's such a blunt instrument. Couldn't they find a mini shovel. Those clones are pretty dopey...LOL...
     
    MikeMar likes this.
  13. Ruth

    Ruth Well-Known Member

    12,985
    560
    Jul 31, 2001
    Anchorage,...
    I have been loving this show but I thought this episode was pretty weak in comparison to the rest. Too much exposition and use of extended dialogue to tie up loose ends, and I thought some of the reveals were already super obvious by the time they spelled them out (like that Cal/Dr. M had unconsciously used his powers to make sure that Angela survived the White Night).

    I also really don't understand why Dr. Manhattan let himself be kidnapped and was so certain that it was inevitable. I mean, he's a God, right? With superpowers. He created new life on an alien moon! He walks on water! He was out on the lawn stopping bullets and time with his hands like it was nothing! But then he's like, oh our tragic love obviously ends here and there's absolutely nothing I can possibly do to prevent myself from being kidnapped and killed. But . . . why not? Even if he can't destroy the device for some reason, he could transport it out into space, or instantly vaporize all the 7th cavalry members who know how it works, or any of a zillion other things that would solve this problem. His sudden powerlessness doesn't make any sense at all, and if they even tried to explain it, I missed it.

    I mean, I get that it's a necessary narrative device to set up whatever is going to happen with Lady Trieu's clock, but this really seems like the sort of thing you really need to come up with some sort of plausible explanation for, rather than just leaving a huge giant inconsistency plot hole out there unexplained.
     
    john4200 likes this.
  14. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    55,769
    12,417
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    Bear in mind that he knows what will happen next. So we can assume that his capture will end up being not entirely a bad thing.
     
  15. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

    4,786
    57
    Oct 31, 2009
    In which case he should have said so. Instead, he said it could not be stopped.
     
  16. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    55,769
    12,417
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    Maybe because stopping it would have led to a worse outcome?
     
  17. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

    25,361
    2,233
    May 24, 2003
    This was perhaps my favorite episode of the series. I don't think there was much that we didn't already know, but it was nice seeing it all tied together, and I really liked the inspection of Dr Manhattan's character and the insight in how he perceives time. It's a hard concept to get, and I think they took a risk going there. Seeing how he could deal with romance, and romance with a person who perceives time linearly, is doubling down on the risk. I felt they pulled it off.

    As to why he allowed himself to be captured, I'm not sure but perhaps there is an intentional motivation that will be revealed to us. I agree with others that there are a multitude of ways that he could have simply destroyed the device, or even killed those who were to create and deploy it. There seems to be a certain inherent fatalism to his character, and they touched on this with the Vietnam discussion. Even though he knew the negative consequences of his actions in Vietnam, including even the death of Abar's parents, he did it anyway.

    That he "knows the future" is perhaps too simplistic an interpretation of his ability/affliction. If one of us who views time linearly knows the future then we would attempt to alter future events to our benefit -- we would act in the "now" to change the "future". But Doctor Manhattan doesn't describe his ability that way, he seems to perceive everything at once. He might not even have a "now" and a "future", his existence could just be a quantum probability function, an infinite number of possible existences and by virtue of observing him we had to see one of them. Is Schrödinger's cat dead or alive? Look and see.

    Then again, maybe they'll Dr Strange it and reveal he had a plan.

    What else was interesting is that they left open the possibility that he could give his abilities to others.
     
  18. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    55,769
    12,417
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    Which, of course, means he will.
     
    smbaker likes this.
  19. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

    4,786
    57
    Oct 31, 2009
    In which case he should not have said it cannot be stopped, but rather it should not be stopped, since it would lead to a worse outcome. Although that is pretty farfetched coming from someone with godlike powers. It seems like the show has done what they so often do with overpowered characters -- made him into a moron in order to make the plot go a certain way.
     
  20. morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

    13,713
    1,843
    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    To him, he couldn’t stop it, because it already happened to him or more accurately he learned about it as it happened to him. If he prevented it, he wouldn’t have known about it and wouldn’t have known to prevent it. He wasn’t being a moron, that’s just the way he is. It’s like saying why didn’t you stop something from happening yesterday.

    It was ironic that Angela actually caused him to get captured. If she hadn’t ran outside, then Dr. M wouldn’t have had to go save her and end up getting shot.
     
    smbaker likes this.

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements