WARNING - Before you go in for the HR20

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by rrr22777, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. hybucket

    hybucket Member

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    Nov 26, 2004

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    Since the only way, it would seem, to figure out the true percentage of users impacted by any decision made by D* would be for D* to call all their customers and ask them, as this forum certainly is not representative of their customer base, this cannot happen, so it all boils down to...if you don't want it (whatever that "it" happens to be), don't get it (or dump it).
    My decision right now, as I will be moving shortly, is...do I keep D* and upgrade to the HR20, or go with Comcast and the Series 3/Moto Box w/Tivo.
    The pluses and minuses for me are:
    Plus: D* has far more HD content, their prices and plans are far cheaper than Comcast, at least in the Boston area, and I've had D* for 7 years and haven't had any problems.
    The HR20 is a 50/50 gamble. Hard to tell - the 50 SP limit is confining, but liveable.
    Minuses: Rain/snow fade. Right now, the first channels to go during a storm are the HDs. I've had the dish realigned several times, and the best signal is in the mid 80s. It's a real pain.
    With Comcast, the pluses are:
    No rain fade. A better quality picture (from what I've seen, at least compared to my current HR 10). And the TiVO, either Series 3 or their box with the TiVO upgrade.
    Minuses for Comcast: That would also be the TiVO, because I"m not sure just how much support Comcast will give for it. I've heard horror stories about Cable Cards with the S3, and who knows what the Comcast TiVO download will entail. Plus, the prices for the package I currently have with D* would be ridiculously expensive.
    No one can make the final decision but me, and I would say that it's the same for anyone else who bitches and moans about the HR 20. D* isn't about to change anything on the basis of what they see on this or any forum.
     
  2. Jebberwocky!

    Jebberwocky! Guest

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    actually they could call a much lower number (valid stastical sample) and get an answer that is within X% of being accurate ;)
     
  3. Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

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    I agree with you. However, I'm not sure if Directv doesn't have a sense of the number of season passes it's average user uses (put it this way, I wouldn't be surprised if Tivo doesn't collect this info and deliver it to Directv for a fee.

    The issue of tradeoffs is the very same way I look at it. But the tradeoffs being keeping the HR10 for a while longer and forgoing the new HD channels, switching to cable immediately and getting a S3. I switched from Comcast because their customer service sucked, it would take a lot to get me to go back. (I also like the Sunday Ticket).

    For the most part I think people make these decisions based on their individual preferences. Rather than castigating people for making choices that you or I did not make, I think that shedding some light on the considerations makes a lot more sense so that others, who are still trying to make the choice, can rationally reach a decision. For people who switched, having them explain why they switched and what the tradeoffs have been, both from a negative and positive framework makes sense.
     
  4. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

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    I so agree that these boards & dbstalk are not representative of the population. I know a few HR20 owners, all very impressed, non Tivo users, non Message Board users (in general). These average joes are not represented in any of these survey's and if I know 10 or so then there must be a lot out there.

    I still fail to understand the overriding argument that goes on here. I like the HR10, I'd be happy if it did MPEG4, but it doesn't. That does not automatically make the HR20 a bad machine. I am much more interested in people who say they cannot live without DLB or 50+ season passes than I am "it's a crappy machine" Those people are making a choice, those features are more important to them than new HD channels. I would continue to be confused by why those people, many of them multi system owners, don't just add an HR20 for the HD channels.
     
  5. Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

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    Berkeley

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    JohnB1000,

    I don't think there's much to understand. It's kind of like an Apple/PC war. I think people are often threatened by choices others make re: their preferences. Frankly, I loved the HR10 and had a HR20 and HR10 system in play I would have been preferectly happy to keep it that way since I like both units but unfortunately the HR10 died. The one thing I miss with the loss of my HR10 is the DLB. At the same time, if I didn't have the HR20 I would have missed the 90 minute buffer. It's all about tradeoffs and making choices in reference to your own preferences.

    I suspect that there are a lot of reasons why someone might not add a HR20 unit to their already existing tivo household. 1) the added complexity of wiring, 2) the added mirror cost; 3) brand loyalty.
     
  6. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

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    I completely understand everything you say but given that it's the only way to get the new HD channels (and lets not forget satellite based locals) to be so stubbornly against it seems odd. I would happily accept a significantly worse machine than the HR20 to get the HD locals for example.
     
  7. Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

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    A few folks are hoping that by holding out they will cause Directv to reflect and offer a mpeg4 Tivo option. I understand that. I was one of the holdouts for OS/2 instead of Windows, however, after Windows 95 hit the market I concluded that it was unlikely that OS/2 would gain the share necessary to remain a viable option, and that Windows became a reasonably acceptable alternative--I jumped ship. I suspect at some point many of these folks are going to have to jump ship as well--either to the HR20 or away from Directv. Time will tell however.
     
  8. newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    one super cool thing on the hr20 is the 30 second skip that 'cues' up however many times you press it and then 'does it'.

    with tivo you must pause for a fraction more of a second to skip.
     
  9. Citivas

    Citivas Old Member

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    Cranbury,...
    63 SP's, 3 min, 20 sec.

    How do I know? I used a stopwatch just now... And it was recording two programs at the same time.

    How many viewers old enough to have their own shows do you have in your household? You criticize others for generalizations but you seem to be making pretty big assumptions without first hand knowledge.

    I think its fine that some people don't need more than 50 SP's. But all these posts trying to justify, or worse, trivialize or belittle, people who have different situations and DVR usable habits is just lame. Its no better than any of the posts of people who report the problems with their HR20 not recording shows jumping on to say "mine works perfectly" and imply that they were either doing something wrong, making it up or whatever. The fact is, nice for the people with no problems but that doesn't change the facts for the people who are having problems and posting otherwise is bound to start and endless war of counter posts back and forth...

    This is exactly the same situation. As long as people answer to those wanting more than 50 posts that they show just watch less TV, this will go on forever because it is a pointless, annoying response that will always illicit a gut response...

    It's such an arrogant statement on the face of it -- to suggest that anyone who has more season passes must be watching too much TV. Its like the person going 70 in the 55 zone who criticizes the person passing them at 75. You're both speeding so stop judging anyone who doesn't admit to your personal rules.

    My wife and I watch 1 hour of TV a day typical. I watch a second hour sometimes late at night. Our school age kids watch none typically on a weekday and 2 hours on a weekend day. Our smallest child watches probably an hour a day (but different shows all the time from a list of a dozen always recorded for him to chose from). There is not a single SP that is out of date or cancelled. Yet we have 63 of them...

    And, personally, I can't imagine why someone would care more about an annoying lag time in resorting season passes that the average user only needs to do once in a while more than a program capacity limitation that severely limits the functionality capacity of the box. But to each their own. I accept you have different expectations.

    So call the 50 limit a design choice, a bug, a low priority for the developers, whatever. But stop implying that it was done because no one really needs or should have more than 50 SP's. You don't need them. Someone else does. What's wrong with leaving it at that?
     
  10. Citivas

    Citivas Old Member

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    Cranbury,...
    Perhaps because the HD channels aren't that big a deal for them. I own one of each in two different rooms. The HR20 remains in our secondary veiwing location and, thought I thought it would be otherwise, we have no temptation to even switch them. Until Battlstar Galactica comes back in 2008 there isn't any of our season passes that are helped by the new HD channels. We get the networks in HD on the 10-250. So until they drop the national network feeds from MPEG-2 there's no rush to give up the machine that allows us to have all our shows (more than 50), the UI we like, the remote we like WAY more, and the box that has (for us) always reliably recorded all our shows...

    I know there are others that can't get their locals without MPEG-4, or who have a lot more shows on the non-network HD's, or who like the HR20 UI and who seem to have more reliability with it than others. For any and all of them, its the right choice. That's just not everyone...
     
  11. BoltonHill

    BoltonHill New Member

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    JohnB you make a valid point so let me give a reason why. If I am handicapped (or am an elderly person), have limited mobility, etc. the TV becomes my "window to the world. If I watch a lot of tv it's because tv has become important to me. It may very well have become the "lynchpin" to my daily quality of life. I PREFER the DLB because it allows me to watch my local news AND CNN in the same half hour time frame missing little or nothing of either and it does it intuitively. The HR20 doesn't do that. During those times when there is nothing on TV I want to watch (repeats, reality shows [*ick!! lolol*], etc), going to my recorded shows helps keep my mind active when my body won't permit me to be active. Plenty of SP's give me a greater choice of what to watch. I CHOOSE (as you stated) to have the features that help me maintain my quality of life (which is good to me) and the HR20 doesn't afford me the same thing.

    So the question becomes, do I prefer to watch TV the way I want to watch it or do I prefer to watch high definition TV. I PREFER both but since that is not an option I stick to the HR10 as my PRIMARY vehicle. Let's not fall into the "digital" crap either. As far as I am concerned, as an end user, it's ALL digital. The clarity is awesome (and since both boxes are connected to the same TV I can compare).

    As for recordings, I've had HR10 from the VERY BEGINNING! and an HR20-700 from the VERY BEGINNING and remember all of it. A little over a year after getting my HR20 it is STILL missing recordings, cutting recordings short, giving bogus 'error 3', and in general having RECORDING problems. I don't have that with my TIVO. TRUE I am still on 3.1f on my HR10 (thank the gods for these forums!!) but while my SP list is taking it's sweet time re-ordering, I switch to composite and am watching the HR20.
     
  12. BoltonHill

    BoltonHill New Member

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    I wrote in the above for this reason: I don't post very often but I am here on a regular basis. I am OFFENDED at the easy assumption that members who watch A LOT of tv simply don't have lives. The insults and flame wars over this are ridiculous! Some folks want DLB because it improves their viewing habits and others prefer many season passes because they are limited and their quality of life IS improved by being able to record what they want and not have some artificial limit placed on that recording ability.
     
  13. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    By the way, the 50 series link limit has a VERY long thread on DBSTalk dating back to last *December*. All these arguments have been brought up many times and rehashed. Here is the thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=74660
     
  14. joed32

    joed32 New Member

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    A little bit too much logic and tolerance going on here today. But some very good posts by people on both sides explaining their reasoning without knocking anyone else's. I would think that the new fee would be the last straw for many of the Tivo only people. We all knew that the mpeg 2 channels were going away but no one thought channels would be lost this soon. It is time for many to choose the lesser of two evils. I'm sure everyone will make the choice that is best for them.
     
  15. BoltonHill

    BoltonHill New Member

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    Joe... Let's remember something... the LESSER of two evils is STILL EVIL!! lololol :eek:
     
  16. Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

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    BoltonHill, also remember that the perfect is the enemy of the good. ;)
     
  17. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

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    And that a rolling stone gathers no moss....
     
  18. hybucket

    hybucket Member

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    How about starve a cold, stuff a fever?
    And could this thread get any more off-base....?
     
  19. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

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    BoltonHill, I don't think you say anything that disagrees with me right ? You are making that choice. I certainly don't knock people who watch too much TV

    My choice is that I would rather get the HD channels (MPEG4 only for me, no OTA) and have to manage my season passes, than have unlimited season passes and no HD. I also have a unit that has never missed a recording in 11 months, nor had any problems of the known variety.

    My other point is that new, non-TIVO, users are impressed by the HR20, they seem more willing to accept the odd missed recording and they learn to manage these things better because they have no expectations.

    Since it's an option for me, I choose to keep my HR10 and 3 SD DirectTivo's and use them with my two HR20's. I will eventually retire two of the SD machines. With two HR20's I have dual buffer :)

    So my confusion is why "having" to get an HR20 for new channels that HR10 can't get makes HR20 such a bad machine for some. History is riddled with stories of 1st (and later) gen products having flaws (iPod's, TIVO's) but people seem to talk as if this is the first time it's happened. History also is riddled with the need to upgrade systems for new things (Ask Apple users about OS upgrades :))

    I believe some of these posts will turn a few people away from getting an HR20 which, to me, is disingenuous. The HD picture is well worth any small pains.
     
  20. BoltonHill

    BoltonHill New Member

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    JohnB... I guess I'm saying I MOSTLY agree with you! The difference in agreement comes with the preference for the service provided vs the quality of picture. I prefer what I consider the superior benefits of TIVO over the continuing problems with the HR20 and yet I own both machines and use both machines... just not equally. 90% of my watching is done on HR10. It will probably remain that way until I am dragged kicking and screaming to MPEG-4! lololol

    For ME, at THIS point, what I want is a machine that records what I want when I want. For ME, at THIS point, that is the HR10. If I miss a recording on the HR20 so what! I PREFER I didn't but unlike my TIVO unit, that thing has given me issues from day one. Yes... I WILL have to downgrade to it at some point but in the meantime... I will bear my cross as I must! lololol

    ANYONE WHO READS MY POST(S) AND ARE TURNED AWAY FROM THE HR20... I say suffer through the growing pains. It's TRUE it is getting better but it is still a beta unit. In the meantime, you will be winding down your 2 year commitment and hopefully it will be ready for primetime. If you MUST have HD.. HD IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO YOU then you simply have to switch at some point and I am sorry that there won't be a choice for us.

    Other then that... yessir! We agree! lolol Hope your weekend is awesome!
     

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