WARNING - Before you go in for the HR20

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by rrr22777, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. Oct 17, 2007 #81 of 133
    daperlman

    daperlman check the rhime

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    You really think that? I agree that 50 is a lot for one season or even year of TV.... but after a few (including cancelled shows by then) they pile up.
     
  2. Oct 17, 2007 #82 of 133
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Actually putting the HR20 into standby actually tells it to start doing it's background processes right away. So going into standby will quicken ToDo list population and search indexing and so forth. Other then that standby just does the standard "kill the lights and outputs" thing.

    The missing recordings seems to be guide data related. Either bad guide data that the HR20 isn't processing correctly or the way the HR20 handles guide data updates (or both). It's not all that widespread and it mostly effects kids programming on channels like Toon and Disney. I personally haven't missed anything but then I'm not recording the troubled shows. The CE from two weeks ago added a bunch of logging codes to the history in an attempt to track down the exact cause and last week's CE included a number of updates and fixes and from what I've seen reports are down of any missed recordings with that CE. DirecTV is very active in trying to snuff this problem out and is why it's been a long time since the last national release. The more people that report their problems on DBSTalk the more data points DirecTV has to go on. DirecTV watches and listens over there, they really do.
     
  3. Oct 17, 2007 #83 of 133
    TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    (I think you mean "decode", but we get the idea):)

    While I'm splitting hairs :rolleyes: I'm not sure that's a flaw, but I certainly feel comfortable characterizing it as a shortcoming, and is only one of the many reasons I have been known to justify using the term "user-hostile" when describing the HR20. Compared to what we expect, thanks to Tivo's brilliant implementation of recording priorities, anything less now seems an awful lot like a flaw, even if that's actually how they designed it, and what they had in mind.

    To each his own, but I just don't get why folks might like watching programs while doing PVR housekeeping chores. Although we all are increasingly multitaskers I either want to watch full-screen uninterrupted, or not at all. Probably the same reason I hate PIP and video on an iPod.

    So PIP in the EPG is just not a feature I need or will ever want. Had it with DISH and was annoyed by it. Sometimes going to the menus is a good way to mute annoying audio from programs you're not watching. Add a feature where I still get video and audio in the menus, and I am going to cry foul and scream "downgrade".
     
  4. Oct 17, 2007 #84 of 133
    daperlman

    daperlman check the rhime

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    I personally like to pick shows while watching recordings especially during a new season with a new unit - but I can respect your POV
     
  5. Oct 18, 2007 #85 of 133
    gio1269

    gio1269 "HR20 Army"

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    You might be on to something here. My HR0 was never plugged into a UPS. I missed a few recordings. Yes and few cam during a minor power surge/out. Even if 1 sec the HR20 would shut down.

    Once I got my HR20, I installed a huge UPS that I had lying around. I have now never missed a recording.

    The HR10 did go through a Monster Bar Surge Protector that is supposed to clean that "dirty power" but I am not sure about that.

    Maybe people who are missing recordings should try it.

    Look the point is BOTH units have issues. I am just look at this board over the years. I understand the whole GUI difference and that's fine. Some Tivo die hards will never switch even though in the big picture of things it does not really matter.

    But the way the HR20 gets bashed here is really sad and stupid. IMO it's a very nice machine. Not perfect, but neither was the HR10. I guess we need to go back to a VCR and remember how reliable those things were :rolleyes:
     
  6. Oct 18, 2007 #86 of 133
    newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    tivo lags way before 50 SP :) No one can deny that.
     
  7. Oct 18, 2007 #87 of 133
    RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    The really sad thing is that you folks are constantly badgering people who say they love the Tivo and here we are on the Tivo forum - not the HR20 forum. The HR20 is clearly not liked by Tivo users as much as a Tivo. You guys need to come to grips that while you settled for second best according to the ratings, the rest of us prefer the Tivo.

    Here you are making excuses for a serious design flaw. The HR20 deserves to get bashed because it was not well thought out, even though dvrs have been around for years. Instead we see a company struggling with a replacement because the company they hired to replace Tivo failed miserably. They then decided to do the development in house in a hurry and it clearly shows.

    As for the design limit of 50 sp - think about it. What is the purpose of a dvr - to record programs and play them back when the user requests them. How do recordings get on the dvr - Season passes, manually, recording the current program, wishlists and suggestions - the last 2 at least on the Tivo.

    I am a lot like Citivas in that I do not ever watch live tv (including sports and the news). I don't like putting up with the same commercial being shown over and over, and I also don't care about injury timeouts, or what's coming up on the next segment of the local news. (Tivo has truly changed the way I view TV.) So, we too have a set of programs that are watched soon after the broadcast - like football, a second tier that we like to watch as a series, and then a third group of shows that might be interesting if I have a few minutes and don't want to read.

    So, about once every six months, I bring up the channel guide for channels that I enjoy, to see what is new. I will then select the season passes for shows that seem interesting. I just added about 20 over the weekend to go along with the 50 or so that are already there. I also watch a lot of the suggestions that the Tivo finds. I also clean up my sp list, but the point is that I want the variety to be there, and I don't have to spend much time managing lists.

    DirecTV has come out with a dvr into a market where dvrs have been around for several years. Yet, they didn't bother to understand how people use the dvr or didn't have the foresight to think much beyond live TV. Citivas and I present two normal ways to use a dvr, but DirecTV would severely restrict us with the HR20.

    A dvr can now have tons of recording space, but yet DirecTV didn't have the foresight to allow its customers to use one of the standard (i.e. sp) methods to take advantage of it. Instead, the HR20 users are having to manage around a design flaw.

    DirecTV took a giant step backwards by setting up this restriction. I'm sure in their programmers minds, there was a need (let's hope they didn't just say 'well 50 sounds good'). But this is a case when the programmers should have been overridden by the design team. So yet once again, we see a product that has become second-rated to the Tivo even though it is much newer, just because they couldn't bother to find out how people use the current best-of-the-line product.
     
  8. Oct 18, 2007 #88 of 133
    terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

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    When you generalize you generally make mistakes.

    I am a TiVo user and while I like the TiVo I am much more happy with the performance of my HR20.

    You are just as guilty, if not far more so, of constantly badgering people that say that they are happy with the HR20. Try looking in the mirror a bit.
     
  9. Oct 18, 2007 #89 of 133
    milominderbinder

    milominderbinder New Member

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    Once I hacked my Sony T60 and put in the fast hard drive, it was lightning fast but still took sometimes many minutes before the Season Pass Manager would respond after a change.

    I found that by keeping by Season Passes to 40 or so the response time is at worst just a few of minutes. When I cleaned up I found that many were for old shows no longer even broadcast.

    So at least for me, although I can have more than 40 Season Passes in my TiVo, it is just not worth it to me. Now I am down to 20. There just are not that many shows worth watching in SD.

    For those with 70 or 100 Season Passes, how long does it take if you make a change in the Season Pass Manager?

    - Craig
     
  10. Oct 18, 2007 #90 of 133
    RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Sorry - just reporting the facts. :D

    From the majority:


    Would you trade?

    If the HR10-250 TIVO had mpeg4 HD would you prefer it to the HR20-700?

    HR20 ready for prime time?
     
  11. Oct 18, 2007 #91 of 133
    kyungkim

    kyungkim New Member

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    I've owned my directivo since 2002 and bought both my hr10's at launch. Its not like any of us went out of our way to "choose" the hr20. But it was a no brainer on giving up my last hr10. Slightlty better ui vs a sh1t ton of new hd content...

    There are valid issues with the hr20, as there are issues with the hr10. The 50 sp limit is simply not one of them.
    Im convinced the hr10 was not designed to handle more than even 40 SPs. Not only does it make managing a 10minute+ ordeal, but it slows down even simple recording tasks.

    I experienced this all the time with my 2 tivos, the liv rm unit which was packed with SPs vs the bedroom one which didnt have as many. The bedroom tivo was always faster and snappier when it came to doing simple on the spot recordings, where the other one had to think long and hard before throwing in an extra recording task.

    No doubt that the hr10 at what 4 years old is still the superior dvr. But some of these complaints of the hr20 make no sense to me. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are talking about the same device.
     
  12. Oct 18, 2007 #92 of 133
    milominderbinder

    milominderbinder New Member

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    The polls are popping up everywhere!

    Here is the other poll to consider...

    This month there was a Poll of HR20 users that asked: Would you Recommend the HR20 to a Freind?

    Of 767 HR20 users: 92% said "Yes", they would recommend the HR20 to a friend.

    Similarly, if you surveyed people I bet more would prefer eating a hamburger to eating a salad. I also bet most would recommend eating a salad.

    - Craig
     
  13. Oct 18, 2007 #93 of 133
    newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    i think my one machine has 130 passes (have to check at home), definitely has more than 100. It takes no more than 2-5 minutes, and sometimes less, to reorder. 6.x definitely speeded this up and i do love that you can use the skip button to go to the top/bottom quickly.

    the 3.1 machine is slower and has maybe 50+ on it. You cant go easily top to bottom and takes longer if you are on an HD channel.

    I will take this wait anyday to find out if i have a conflict "immediately" rather than wait a day for series link to update.

    But as was pointed out to me, you supposedly get used to babysitting new SL's for a day before adding anything else. However as a newbie just starting to add SL's, this is a potentially serious drawback at least short term with pass management. Thankfully the HR20 will only be used for HD stuff that the HDtivos cannot pick up (or in the event i need a 5th tuner).
     
  14. Oct 18, 2007 #94 of 133
    HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    I would trade virtually any downside to not have to wait 2-5 minutes with no picture and no sound while my season passes are resorted. That drove me nuts when i was using my Tivo's.

    I might add that I also love having a display of how much free space is left on my drive. How many times do Tivo users have to ask for that feature before Tivo gives in and gives customers what they want?
     
  15. Oct 18, 2007 #95 of 133
    Citivas

    Citivas Old Member

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    You can make all the changes without any delay. The delay is only when you leave the Season Pass manager, so just be careful not to mix changing the recording options of a show in the middle of your sorting exercise. Deleting shows usually is fast too. I have way over 50 SP's and when I do a major refresh of the season passes and re-sort, the longest it has ever taken was 3 minutes. I do something else then come back. Since I only have to do it that once every now and then, no big deal. Certainly not as big a deal as having a 50 limit for my family of 5 or as some others have suggested, buying and maintaining 3 separate units on the same TV and having to invest in a whole new setup to house and split or route the signal for them all, etc...
     
  16. Oct 18, 2007 #96 of 133
    Citivas

    Citivas Old Member

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    This is an issue for me maybe 6 times a year, versus the daily impact of having a limit on the # of season passes that would reduce every member of my households to 10 shows or less, inclusive of those they are recording only as "maybe" shows to watch or saving up for the Summer, etc.

    Its crazy to say that a delay that isn't a part of a users typical daily behavior is worth trading off a core functionality issue. But I guess if you have a small family or a lot of money to spend on a bunch of machines it wouldn't matter to you...
     
  17. Oct 18, 2007 #97 of 133
    newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    I guess i have the luxury of 2 HDtivos and dont reorder until i know i want to watch the other tivo.

    free space yes! But using suggestions i'm 85% happy with them as a measure. The only thing i cant figure out is why my 6.x machine wont record suggestions as quickly as my 3.1 machine, even when there is tons of free space and i have manually thumbed up many many recurring programs with 3 thumbs
     
  18. Oct 18, 2007 #98 of 133
    kyungkim

    kyungkim New Member

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    Please stop giving out these rosy guesstimates. If you can provied a firm sp number with a firm update time I'd be inclined to believe these short time frames.

    I know I've waited more than 10 minutes for an update. How do I know? I woke up late one day, had to change a sp order that morning and took a shower. Came back 10 min later and it was STILL updating.

    Even with a family of 8 it cant possibly be a big deal. Wouldn't there be SOME overlap in the programs that even grandma and junior watch on a single tv set? With that many sps, the number of conflicts would limit the sheer quanity thats recorded anyway.
    Is there enuff hours in a day/week for a family of 5 to watch/enjoy that stuff in a given week, on one tv?? For those with 130+, Im willing to bet many many of those contained canceled shows, or things taken out of syndication.

    Look i loved my tivo and I miss it, I long for my dlb whenever sunday rolls around.

    But please, touting the unlimited sp on the tivo as a feature? No dice, especially when it adds to the ridiculous lag on the machine.
     
  19. Oct 18, 2007 #99 of 133
    Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

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    It's the wrong question. You're comparing a hypothetical DVR with a real one. Meaning there is no such thing as a HR10-250 that can record the new Directv channels. A more honest comparison is to ask straight up, do you prefer the HR20s or the HR10s.

    Another reason why your comparison makes little sense is that it eliminates any of the technological challenges (and bugs therein) that may or may not come from updating the old Tivos to the new format.

    In addition, and this is a big problem, the people who frequent these forums aren't exactly what I call a representative sample of people who use DVRs. It's truly a poor base for making such declarative statements.
     
  20. Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

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    Okay RS4, let me ask you a question. If the 50 sp limit is a serious design flaw, what would you call the lengthy time it takes a HR10 to reorder season passes? Let me add, given that I'm somewhere south of 50 sp, which would look like a more serious design flaw for me?

    Another question, of HR10 users, what is the precentage of users that have more than 50 sp on a single unit?

    Before calling something serious, it's probably best to figure out the percentage of users being impacted by the decision.
     

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