Want to listen to TIVO through older Receiver when my TV is off

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by denisee, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. denisee

    denisee New Member

    Jun 14, 2010



    My apologies if this has been answered--I've browsed the forums and saw others ask the question, but I haven't seen it answered.

    I have an older Nakamichi Amp/Receiver. It does not have any HDMI inputs or outputs. I don't plan on replacing it in the near future.

    I play my TIVO sound through my Nakamichi (optical audio), and it works well. I have 5.1 surround, etc (though I have to use pro-logic for netflix). To view video on my Samsung HDTV, I have an HDMI cable plugged directly from the TIVO to the TV.

    Like others, I would like to be able to liste to digital music channels through my nakamichi and have the tv turned off. I was able to do this with my previous DVR. What do I need to adjust in the TIVO settings to achieve this?

  2. jmill

    jmill New Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Use optical from TiVo to your receiver.

    As long as your receiver is on, the sound will play through optical. Remember, TiVo unit is always on
  3. wbertram

    wbertram Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    I don't believe that is true! In fact the OP implied that he could NOT receive the optical audio if his TV was off.

    If the TV is off, the TIVO HDMI cannot handshake with any HDMI device, and thus shuts down all HDMI interfaces, including the optical audio.

    To the OP:

    I don't yet have a TIVO Premier, so I can't help setting it up. But, when I was using HDMI with a Motorola DVR, there were options to set up what, and when, sound came out of the optical audio port. I.e., the optical audio port could be made to be always active.

    Also, if you connect the TV using Component Cables, and turn off the HDMI interface, then the optical audio should always be active.
  4. jmill

    jmill New Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Optical has nothing to do with TV or HDMI. If he connects optical straight to the receiver, he will hear the sound.

    To wbertram: If you don't have TiVo Premiere, why do you try to sound like you know what you're talking about? You don't. On TiVo Premiere all audio outputs are active at once, no special setting is needed. Once optical is connected to the receiver, the signal will go through. His TV or how it is connected has nothing to do with this.
  5. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

    Apr 5, 2010


    That exact setup works just fine with my TiVo HD. HDMI to TV, optical to an amp. I always have sound, regardless of the TV state.
  6. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

    Apr 5, 2010
    While that is theoretically correct, and works fine with my HD, it is quite possible there is [yet another] design flaw in the Premiere that shuts off sound if it doesn't negotiate with a TV. Gotta love DRM.
  7. jmill

    jmill New Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    I have Premiere unit with the following setup:

    HDMI goes to TV
    Optical audio goes to the receiver.

    I can listen to music when TV is off and can listen to MP3 from my NAS without ever turning TV on.

    I don't know what "theoretical" design flaw you're talking about. It works in exactly same fashion as it worked in S3, HD and HD XL
  8. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    Alot depends on the devices you have in your A/V chain. It will work with some devices, and will not with others.
  9. andrewl570

    andrewl570 New Member

    Apr 7, 2010
    I have my tivo hooked up through my receiver's optical input. When my receiver is on (and turned to the proper input) the tivo sound plays even though the tv is off.
  10. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

    Apr 5, 2010
    I said it could be a POSSIBLE design flaw, if it didn't work the way we expect it to (like it does in the HD). Your posting that it does work the way expected with your Premiere is far more valuable than my speculation.
  11. SNJpage1

    SNJpage1 Well-Known Member TCF Club

    May 25, 2006
    My Tivo HD puts out sound when the tv is off using optical out. It is actually a pain because the tivo remote wont turn the onkyo receiver on and off and I have to mute the sound when I am done watching TV
  12. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2001
    From what I've read if some device in the HDMI chain is off or in standby but puts enough of a voltage/signal on the HDMI port for the TiVo to detect, but doesn't perform the HDCP handshake the TiVo will display the “Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital Media Recorder's HDMI output. Try another TV input." screen.

    And because the TiVo sends the same signal on all outputs that screen (and the silence that accompanies it) is output on every a/v output of the TiVo.
    (This is also why some people get confused about getting an HDMI error when using the component outputs with a second TV)

    Also it doesn't quite work the same between S3s and HDs/Premieres
    But whether this problem gets tripped depends on the other HDMI devices connected to the TiVo, which is why some people have it and others don't.
  13. johnm4

    johnm4 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    My TiVOHD works like this:

    TiVo HDMI -> TV DVI
    TiVo Optical -> Receiver Optical
    NO SOUND when TV off

    TiVo HDMI -> TV HDMI
    TiVo Optical -> Receiver Optical
    Sound WORKS when TV off

    It's possible I reversed these scenarios, but you get the point.
  14. Arcady

    Arcady Stargate Fan

    Oct 14, 2004
    Some TV sets will cause the TiVo to shut down all interfaces when they are switched off, because they terminate the HDMI handshake and put the TiVo in a state where it cannot verify the HDCP encryption on the HDMI connection. Some TV sets will maintain the HDMI handshake even when "off" and thus the TiVo will continue to deliver a signal to the other ports while the TV is off. If you get no sound when your TV is off, then there are only four solutions:

    1. Buy a new TV.
    2. Buy a new receiver with HDMI.
    3. Buy an HDMI repeater that maintains the handshake even when the TV is off.
    4. Connect the TV using component cables and analog audio.
  15. jmill

    jmill New Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    LOL, you're making the point and don't know what works and that doesn't? Are you just making this stuff up?
  16. ejasons

    ejasons New Member

    Feb 28, 2001
    I don't know why you're assuming that everyone's experience must necessarily match your own. And, you're frankly out of your league with your understanding of HDMI...

    The difference in the table that you so glibly dismissed is that HDMI does audio, while DVI does not. So, having the TiVo sending audio over HDMI, then not being able to, could very definitely cause a different effect on the optical output.

    FWIW, in my experience, I have my TiVo HD connected to an Onkyo receiver, which is then connected to a Sony television. Around once a month or so, I have to power cycle the receiver, because the TiVo says that it wasn't able to create a proper HDMI handshake. I use HDMI audio, so haven't tried seeing whether the optical audio continues to work. I never put my TiVo into standby mode. However, every time I power on my television and receiver, the TiVo displays in the main menu, *not* in Live television, so the power status of the HDMI devices definitely has an affect.
  17. denisee

    denisee New Member

    Jun 14, 2010
    I'm impressed with how active these boards are. Let me clarify a couple of things:
    It seems that Jonathan S and Arcady understand my situation. In my situation, the receiver is left on--only the TV (with it's HDMI connection to the TIVO) is off--and by doing that it cuts off the sound to the receiver. I have a separate optical connection from the TIVO to the receiver.

    It seems that the issue is the Samsung TV and its HDMI relationship to the TIVO. I'll research the Samsung boards.

  18. KraziJoe

    KraziJoe What? Me Worry?

    Nov 30, 2007
    If you lose the handshake, I see no reason why the TIVO would turn off all audio outputs.

    Maybe a TIVO Tech could better answer this.

    Also, what TV do you have? if it's not 1080P then run Component Cables, that way you take out any handshake issues.
  19. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2003
    I think Jonathan_S explained this with a quote from Tivo a few messages back up. If you're viewing digital content and an HDMI cable is connected then an HDCP key is required or it'll throw up an error screen. The error screen has no audio.

    While one could make the argument that a better implementation would be to play the audio regardless, it looks like the programmers took the easier way out.

    The ironic thing is that all the DRM in the world doesn't prevent shows from appearing on bittorrent mere minutes after they've finished airing, nor does it prevent movie releases from leaking out before they're even released. All it really does it make it a hassle for the consumer to deal with issues like this.
  20. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    Jan 17, 2002
    Besides making every consumer pay for the equipment and software to keep that consumer from using the device he/she is paying for. This Am Bizzaroworld.

    As I've mentioned in my case I figured out on my own that HDCP was making my S3 TiVo crash every time I turned the TV off.

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