Virgin Media hints at TiVo via Fibre phone lines

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by britcub, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. britcub

    britcub Bear with a TiVo

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    Jan 19, 2004
    Manchester, UK
    A friend of mine has just done a customer survey for Virgin Media, and come across the attached question! Just hope it's progressed!
     

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  2. pauljs

    pauljs Member

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    £50 Tivo activation fee! must be the new word for lifetime subscription.
     
  3. martink0646

    martink0646 New Member

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    Wisbech
    "Get superfast Fibre Optic Broadband down your phone line":eek:

    Surely I'm not the only one to see glaring error in that statement???

    Our phone lines are copper. How are VM going to magically transform them into Fibre?

    Surely it should say "get superfast broadband at speeds equivalent to Fibre"?

    Martin
     
  4. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    BT is installing Fibre To the Cabinet in a large number of exchanges in the South East of England where there is no Virgin Media coverage in the next 12 months. This includes my mum's exchange where there is no Virgin Media coverage. So it is actually a fibre optic connection apart from the last piece of copper wire of a few tens or a few hundreds of feet to the home.

    On top of this my local village exchange in Surrey where I live where there is no LLU, let alone Virgin cable, was one of the winners of the BT Race To Infinity, which is a BT Retail sponsored initiative to assess demand for fibre in village exchange with 1,000 lines or more. Under that scheme around two thirds of premises in the area will be upgraded to FTTP - Fibre To The Premises. So on my home exchange it will actually truly be possible to get a fibre optic connection to Virgin via your own phone line in many homes.

    In any event you will note that it was I who previously forecast several times on this forum that Virgin would expand its coverage by using BT's new fibre optic network on exchanges where it has no cable coverage of its own. This is what is now probably coming to pass. BT plans to upgrade every exchange in the country to Fibre To The Cabinet in the next eight years (Fibre To The Premises will probably come later for those who want it if the customer is willing to pay the extra cost and/or takes a long enough contract on a high end broadband product). At that stage Virgin Media should be able to provide their service to every home in the UK, albeit that their profit margin per connection may be lower.

    So clearly I was right in my forecast about Virgin using BT's fibre network to expand its coverage. This makes perfect sense as BT Wholesale/Openreach needs to maximise the return on its investment in fibre and government competition policies means it can't expect to do it all as BT Retail.

    Twinned with the announcement yesterday of Formula 1 moving mainly to Sky this is all highly significant stuff since Sky does not have LLU at either my home exchange or my mum's exchange so is a very expensive way to get broadband and subscription tv. However getting Sky Sports through Virgin in conjunction with a Tivo could be a fairly good deal, especially for those of use with access to BT FTTC or FTTP but no Sky llu equipment at the local exchange.

    So it looks like Virgin Tivo here I come, potentially as soon as the first half of 2012.
     
  5. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Dec 25, 2006
    Sky's delivery of programmes over broadband is already pretty well established, and is about to get better with Sky Go Monthly. If you have BT Infinity and want streamed/VOD pay tV, why wouldn't you go direct to source?
     
  6. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I thought Sky Go was only SD (since it works on even a bog standard copper wire ADSL Max connection)? Virgin Tivo over BT Infinity will be HD. I thought you of all people appreciated the massive benefits of watching a program in HD rather than SD?:rolleyes:

    Also BT Infinity broadband is much faster than normal 8MB ADSL MAX or up to 24MB ADSL2+ LLU.

    Anything that allows me directly paying money to the monopolistic Rupert Murdoch empire in favour of the merely free market loving Richard Branson would give me the greatest possible pleasure.
     
  7. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    It is at the moment, as better bandwidth arrives I'm sure HD will come along. iPlayer already has.

    I can't see a future in a box which acts like a PVR with TV packages and the rest but actually is an IPTV unit. Why not go straight to IPTV?

    Just buy the channels you want, direct from source, not give an intermediary a cut.

    it's not there quite yet, but neither is Virgin over IP.
     
  8. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    If you subscribe to Sky Sports to watch the F1, Murdoch gets your money, no matter what intermediary it goes through first.

    Bet you a tenner he puts F1 on SS3 or SS4 so Virgin don't get it in HD.
     
  9. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Unfortunately quite a few of the channels like National Geographic (the sole home of aviation related programs of almost any kind on Uk television for non torrented and therefore legal programs) are only available in a bulk package from Sky or Virgin. Only some channels like British Eurosport are prepared to sell themselves on a completely freestanding basis.

    When you talk about something being an IPTV unit rather than a PVR I'm really not quite sure what you mean? In the long run all television will be delivered by IP even though for the time being DTT and Digital Satellite are more robust until IPTV networks develop more bandwidth with more reliable hardware architecture that avoids interruptions in program delivery.

    Most pay channels find it easier to sell themselves in a package via Sky or Virgin than to market themselves due to the large marketing budget and economies of scale in terms of customer service that those organisations enjoy.
     
  10. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I reckon Virgin will fight another legal case against Sky if they try to pull that trick.
     
  11. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    They pull that trick all the time. I can get Ss1 and SS2 on Topup Tv, but they put just enough on ss3 to make that unattractive.
     
  12. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    We looking a short distance into the future here; disintermediation will be the order of the day.

    Setting up a parallel system to Sky on broadcast is next to impossible. Even those who do it typically use Sky's systems as having your own cards or boxes is impractical.

    Iptv changes all that; even the smallest channel can run their own billing easily and efficiently.


    A box like an internet radio which can tune in to any channel. Could also be a PC, a console or built in to the tv.
     
  13. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I have three Reciva Logik Internet radios I picked up from Dixons for £35 each.

    Guess what but standalone internet radios are now completely dead and all the marketing push is behind crappy old DAB radios.

    The reason is that DAB is a constrained platform that can be dominated by the Beeb and a couple of commercial broadcasters and that is how big bully boy marketing men working for large jackbooted corporates like things.

    If you think that we are now going to have individual subscriptions with each channel we watch then dream on. Apart from anything else Mr and Mrs Average find 20 monthly subs to pay far too complicated. Channels mainly prosper due to marketing and where they are in the EPG as much as due to decent content. If you say to people you can listen to any one of 10,000 channels (Reciva Internet Radio) they just don't want that because its just too much choice. What they want is about 100 channels which a clever marketing machine tells them are the best thing in creation out there and easily worth paying 50 quid a month for.

    What people want is something that all their neighbours have and that marketing men tell them is the best thing sliced bread. If you think that people always choose what is actually technically the best product then you have clearly learned far less about life than I had thought in your last 40+ years on this planet.

    Take T3 for instance. Do people really buy it because its actually interesting or worth reading or simply because it has a jazzy cover with a stylish image and a distribution deal with all of the country's main magazine wholesalers?:rolleyes:
     
  14. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    How patronising.

    People seem to manage just fine picking which media they want in other areas.

    Marketing is important, but you are dead wrong if you think content isn't the primary driver.

    Again with the patronising.



    You need both. If it's not worth reading noone would buy it. People are not the idiots you seem to think they are.
     
  15. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Getting back on topic Virgin Media have already previously talked about laying fibre over BT telegraph poles.

    So if you are on an exchange where there is BT Fibre To the Cabinet but no Virgin Media cable network probably Virgin Media will offer to pay the cost of running fibre from the BT cabinet to your home/premises if you agree to sign a 12 or 18 month contract with them. Subject to your home being not more than so many hundred feet away from the cabinet and/or no digging up of roads or pavements involved.

    This then gives you broadband of up to 80Mbps (latest BT planned speeds for domestic Fibre To The Premises connections) and destroys any hope for Sky Digital of ever providing their service in that area. My betting would be that if Virgin signs a deal with BT where it can lay fibre to the home from BT's cabinets it will specifically demand an exclusive and that Sky cannot also start supplying its service over BT Fibre to the home/premises in the same areas.
     
  16. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    I don't think Sky sees itself as a fibre to the home provider. They are top smart to go down that high cost low margin route. Instead they are positioning themselves as delivery system neutral. Sky Sports is on satellite. DTT, cable, mobile, games console and internet.
     
  17. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    They aren't at all neutral about their premium and excessing pricing on the 4,500 UK phone exchanges where they don't have their own LLU phone equipment.
     
  18. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Eh? I don't understand what point you're making?
     
  19. gazter

    gazter New Member

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    Aug 1, 2001
    carlisle,...
    Yeah, i already posted something about this a while ago, had a conversation with someone at Virgin Media. They are already trialling it somewhere in Wales.
     
  20. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Sky charges a lot more for its ADSL broadband on the 4,500 UK phone exchanges where it doesn't have its own LLU equipment even though it only provides up to 8Mbps ADSL Max via BT Openreach in those areas instead of up to 24Mbps ADSL2+.

    Basically Sky isn't interested in providing a competitive broadband offering in the countryside or even in small towns. Yet quite a few of those exchanges are now already getting fast Fibre To The Cabinet connections under the BT Infinity program and all of them will be upgraded to BT Infinity during the next 8 years. This means that the Virgin Tivo and up to 48Mbps broadband may become available in those areas even though Sky broadband will remain at 8Mbps.

    See www.samknows.com if you are for some reason unaware of BT's dismally restricted LLU broadband coverage. TalkTalk have their own equipment in nearly twice as many phone exchanges as Sky.
     

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