Verizon penalizing TiVo / CableCard subscribers

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by jerryr001, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. Oct 1, 2013 #101 of 130

    NYHeel Well-Known Member

    Oct 7, 2003


    I've never owned the S3 OLED box so I'm not complaining. I just think it's crazy that a box still being used today requires 2 cable cards. I'm not blaming anyone except maybe the user that still chooses to pay double the amount in cable card fees. It just sounds insane. That's all. I'm sure there are good reasons for it.

    But since you brought it up, Tivo couldn't have built it for multi stream cards as well since they knew the M-cards would be out really soon?
  2. Oct 1, 2013 #102 of 130

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2001
    They tried, but without final spec M-cards to test against it turned out that the S3 implementation wasn't actually compatible.

    That kind of crap happens when you have to design against a, not quite finalized, paper spec instead of being able to actually test against a reference implementation. TiVo took their best shot, it didn't work, and their rep has told us here that when they went back to look it wasn't possibly to safely field update S3s to the 'as implemented' M-card spec.
  3. Oct 1, 2013 #103 of 130

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

    Jul 6, 2002
    I ADORE my S3 OLED box, it's one of the best built pieces of consumer electronics I have ever owned, the 2 cards are worth it to me to have that box in service in the house, they really got everything right for me on it.

    The only potential replacement for it may be a 6-tuner Roamio, I'm very happy with the Roamio performance vs my Elite.
  4. Oct 1, 2013 #104 of 130

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2006
    I used to own two S3 OLED Tivos and liked them a lot better than most of the newer models. It was the first cablecard Tivo and I paid a premium price for early technology, although I technically wasn't an early adopter. I had to use four single stream cablecards at $2.99 apiece. I don't know if they'd still be grandfathered in at that price, but when I added a Ceton tuner to the mix and got an M-card for it, the price for the M-card was $3.99. The price of my S-cards never went up the entire time I had them.

    I suspect that if they had been M-cards the cost would have gone up with the priced increase. Perhaps Verizon felt it was more profitable to rent obsolete technology at a lower cost than run the risk of losing any revenue by increasing the monthly fee. The S-cards would have been useless to them if I returned them since they now only provide M-cards.
  5. Oct 1, 2013 #105 of 130

    unitron Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC


    Anyone who doesn't understand why an original S3 can't use M cards never went through the "Pentium Ready" 486 motherboard fiasco.
  6. Oct 1, 2013 #106 of 130

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    There was no grandfathering here. When I got FiOS in 2007, I used six, single stream cards for $2.99 each in three OLED S3 TiVos along with a couple of multi stream cards in two TiVo HD boxes. When the prices went up to $3.99, they went up on all my cards, there was no grandfathering for me.

    Unless the price increase did occur after the Premiere came out. I do know that when the Premiere came out, i got rid of all of my Single Stream cards and got Multi stream cards instead since I had ordered a bunch of launch Premieres to replace all my S3 TiVo HDs and S3 OLED TiVos.
  7. Scootr

    Scootr New Member

    Dec 21, 2013
    We paid V Fios $5.99 a month for the cablecard rental.
  8. cram501

    cram501 Member

    Oct 22, 2002
    Tivo could have updated the S3 for M-Cards but they chose not to do so. It wasn't worth the trouble and risk.

  9. Richter12x2

    Richter12x2 New Member

    Dec 26, 2013
    I know this is an old post, but even though this may have a witty retort, why don't you just do this? The same cablecard they use in their DVR is the one you'd need for your Tivo, so just pull it out of theirs, stick it in yours, and put the Verizon one in the closet.

    Job done.
  10. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    Version may get cranky if you did that, and had to re-pare the card
  11. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

    Aug 2, 2003
    Indeed, they wouldn't let you re-pair it. But you'd still get everything except HBO and Cinemax without pairing.

    A bigger issue is that you'd be paying the DVR rental price just to get a CableCard, which is a really bad deal.
  12. JSY

    JSY Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Does Verizon really charge $5 or $5.99/mo for cable card services? That's outrageous.. Is there anything in the laws to prevent them from pushing the prices so high to make it anti-competitive? I'm still bothered that TWC raise their price from $1.50 to $2.50 years ago... but $5 and up would sort of make it cost prohibitive almost. It makes me think they are doing this on purpose as more people have multiple tuners and things like the Mini.

    That being said, while I also have a TWCNYC set top box along with my TiVos - I just can't imagine having to go back to using their box even at that price. For all the issues that people might have with TiVo, it doesn't compare to the suffering that you have to endure with their own box. I really don't know after all these years how they get away with giving out such an inferior experience with their DVRs. Well, I guess the answer is just that many people don't know or can't be bothered doing what we all do.

    I've been lucky and have had minimal to no issues moving my cablecard from my Premiere XL to my Roamio Pro. (knock on wood) I know not everyone has had the same experience though.
  13. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2006
    Providers are free to charge what they feel is fair and competitive. Considering that we are no longer required to rent any hardware from Verizon or any other provider, $4.99 per month, which is the current cost, isn't that bad. My total equipment rental fees with FIOS is for three cablecards and no set top boxes or DVRs. I signed up for a 2-year commitment which locks me into the current rates and also gives me a discount, so my monthly bill is lower. FIOS internet is the best available, IMHO, so it's worth the cost just to get it. I also get a discount for having the bundled service (internet, phone, and TV), plus I get my wireless service included in one monthly bill.

    Gripe all you want about Verizon's cablecard fees, but I'll take them over any other provider out there.
  14. StrynBean

    StrynBean Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2004
    I was planning on switching from Comcast to Verizon.

    I have 3 Tivo boxes that have lifetime.

    I am staying with Comcast.
  15. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    Comcast, for most people, is $8.45/month per cable card and about 9% taxes. ($1.00 for the card, $9.95 for the AO charge - $2.50cr for using your own equipment). I have been grandfather in at one $7.45 charge + $1 each for 4 cable cards.
  16. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    No, it's $7.45 per month on average for Comcast ($9.95 outlet fee minus $2.50 credit). I don't know where you're getting the $1 extra charge from, you're the only one I've seen reporting it.

    Regardless of what it is exactly, the fact that the FCC lets Comcast skirt the reasonable card rental rules is disappointing. Multiple complaints have been filed about it but the FCC looks the other way. It's also annoying that card charges on Comcast vary wildly by area and what CSR you get, there's not much consistency to them. Some don't pay anything for cards, some pay a minor per-card charge ($1-2), some pay full outlet with or without a credit.
  17. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    Feb 28, 2001
    Actually, I think the most common is that people pay a small charge for the card (a couple of bucks) and then pay an outlet fee on top of that (which where the $1 comes from). I believe that is the national advice to the franchises. But some franchises bundle the cablecard fee into the outlet fee - it depends on how they break down the charges for their own equipment.
  18. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2002
    According to the information at the Comcast website, they are only supposed to charge for the 2nd CableCARD in the same device:

    I have 4 TiVos, one of which is a TiVo 2(w/PLS) connected to one of their boxes, said box counting as the one included in the package. I am paying a net $7.45ea/mo for the other 3 ($9.95ea/mo "Digital Service" fee - $2.50ea/mo "Customer Owned Equipment - Adjustment").
  19. JSY

    JSY Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    This is what I'm talking about.. I mean at a certain point it become anti-competitive and I have to imagine all that hard work to force cable companies to allow people to own set top boxes meant they worked out rules against cable companies making it so expensive that people wouldn't own their own boxes. The way I see it - my cable card costs have almost doubled since I started with cable cards about 5 years ago - which is at a far higher rate of increase than anything else on my cable bill, including their own STB, over that period. Now, if that money was going to train their customer service better then maybe I wouldn't be so bothered. lol
  20. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2006
    Verizon only charges for the card. There are no extra outlet fees. If anyone's penalizing cablecard users, it's Comcast, not Verizon.

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