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Uverse DSL and Bolt Vox OTA with MOCA

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by lwwphd, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    Newbie here--I am about to start installing a new Bolt Vox OTA and a new Mini to replace my AT&T Uverse cable service. I've got VOIP, internet, and Uverse TV, and I'm going to keep only the internet service. The TV and the modem are in different rooms, so I've got 2 Motorola MM1000's, one for the Bolt and one for the connection to the Uverse modem.

    Since Uverse is DSL, there's no coax feeding the modem. Instead, there's a cable that comes out of a single port surface-mount jack that brings everything (VOIP, internet, and tv programming) in to the RG/modem. Then a coax cable leaves the modem and is connected to a coax wall receptacle, and from there it goes to the basement where's there's a splitter that sends the tv programming to the TV sets. I'm plan on using the existing coax network with MOCA to connect the Bolt and the Mini, and the internet will be supplied by the Uverse DSL. How do I connect the mm1000 in this setup since there is no coax for internet feeding the modem? Looking at TIVO diagrams, it seems that one ethernet cable would go from one of the 4 ethernet out ports of the modem to the mm1000, and that a coax cable would go from the mm1000 to a 2-way splitter attached to the coax wall receptacle. And a coax cable would be attached to the coax outlet on the modem (for internet) and be connected to the other leg of the 2-way splitter, and then the signal follows the same path to the splitter in the basement.

    I have read that TIVO with MOCA doesn't work with Uverse internet, but also have read that some people have had success with it. Please advise and thank you very much.
     
  2. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    Internet is Internet and will work with Tivo. You just need to use a router to connect the many devices, through ethernet cables or wireless.

    Tivo does not work with Uverse TV or DirecTV for TV service.
     
    kpeters59 likes this.
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I recall someone recently posting a model number for their AT&T UVerse gateway, and a review of its associated manuals revealed the gateway included a coax port for a competing coax LAN technology -- HomePNA (HPNA), I believe. I expect that your current setup is using the HPNA coax connection to network your AT&T TV set-tops. So... if/when you shut down the AT&T TV setup, you should be able to disconnect the coax line from the AT&T gateway and leverage that coax line for the Motorola MM1000, to establish a MoCA LAN on the same shared coax plant.

    Additional thoughts, in brief (edit: revised per BOLT OTA epiphany):
    • You'll want to review your splitters for MoCA compatibility; the existing splitters may work, but good to assess the coax components in advance. Recommended splitters are the Holland GHS-PRO-M series.
    • A standalone network switch could be used at the BOLT OTA location to network additional Ethernet-capable devices co-located with the BOLT through the MM1000 MoCA adapter. Just be sure to use a Gigabit switch to avoid throttling the throughput.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Correct.
    No. Once you're done with the AT&T TV setup and the AT&T TV set-tops are shut down, you'd disconnect the coax from the AT&T gateway and connect the MM1000 'NETWORK' port using this cable to the coax wall outlet. With the MM1000 connected to the gateway's Ethernet LAN, the MM1000 would now be bridging that LAN connection to the coax plant as your MoCA network.

    What's missing from your description is how the new BOLT OTA would be connected to the antenna signal. Where would the antenna coax connect in your setup?
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    My apologies! You have a BOLT OTA, and so, yes, you *WOULD* require a MoCA adapter at the BOLT location to facilitate a MoCA connection. (Curse TiVo for leaving MoCA out of the BOLT OTA.)
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Here's an old diagram from another thread, as an example, with a number of similarities to your setup ... though the biggest question remains how your antenna signal is routed to the BOLT OTA location/device.

    Antenna attic MoCA.png
    edit: p.s. Another example, with an in-room antenna connection...

    lwwphd alt1.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    p.s. If you’d only be using the shared coax plant for MoCA (and not OTA signals), it’s possible that your original setup suggestion of using a 2-way splitter as a combiner could work, even with the AT&T boxes still active. From a brief bit of reading, it appears HPNA’s frequencies are well apart from MoCA (Band D), so HPNA and MoCA could coexist on the same coax line.
     
  8. snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    Note that HPNA also clashes with DOCSIS modem uplink frequencies.
     
  9. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    tivo diagram 2.jpg I feel better already. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

    I've uploaded 2 diagrams that should help. tivo diagram 1.jpg tivo diagram 1.jpg tivo diagram 2.jpg

    Yes, I'll have a MoCA adapter at the RG/modem and one in the room with the Bolt OTA. And

    1. The RG is a combination modem/router At&T Pace 5268ac.
    2. KRK: you're right re: 5268 coax out. More research last night and I found that the 5268 coax out is HPNA and is used to send Uverse TV to set top boxes. So the 5268 coax out port will be unused and the coax cable that was plugged into it will be plugged into the MM1000 "network" jack. The 5268 menu has a toggle for "enable HPNA," which has to be "on" for the HPNA/TV signal to be sent via coax. Should I turn off HPNA as part of the TiVo setup?
    3. One AT&T help site said "Uverse does not support internet over MoCA." This wasn't clarified. Another AT&T site said that a MoCA adapter COULD do internet over MoCA. ThAbtO's point of "internet is internet" makes sense, because the Uverse internet signal isn't going to know that it's being sent via coax. (Right?)
    4. Re: antenna, I'm open to what y'all think would work best. My plan was to connect an attic antenna via coax to the "antenna in" jack on the Bolt, with a POE filter attached to the antenna, then attach the run of coax. Will an antenna connection only to the Bolt be sufficient? Doesn't the Bolt send OTA signals to the Mini via MoCA?
    5. As you know, the MM1000 has 2 coax jacks--device and network. Will I always be using the network jack?
    6. POE filter: for the antenna, see #4 above. But where does it go for the MoCA? There is no coax cable that enters my house b/c it's DSL. Should I put it where the coax from the MM1000 in the 5268 room attaches to the coax wall jack?
    7. In diagram 1 I uploaded, can I use a 3-way splitter instead of the pictured 2-way splitter and connect the coax from the antenna to the splitter, and from there, use a 2-way splitter at the coax wall jack by the Bolt OTA to connect the coax to the Bolt antenna jack and connect with coax the 2nd splitter leg to the MM1000 "network" jack? (see diagram 2)

    How should I upload further images so it won't take up so much room?

    Thanks again.
     
  10. snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    For the Bolt, you can eliminate the splitter by connecting from the wall to the Network port of the MM1000, them connect the Device port of the MM1000 to the Bolt. The Network port can accept all frequencies, but the MM1000 blocks the MoCA frequencies so that they do not pass to the Device port. Since the Bolt OTA only needs the OTA frequencies, this works as a simpler connection. This will also give slightly stronger OTA signals to the Bolt.

    As for the PoE Filter, I would suggest modifying the connection to the antenna by connecting the PoE filter directly to the input of the 3-way splitter, then connect the coax from the antenna to the PoE filter. The way you have it right now, the OTA signals don't have a clean connection to the Bolt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  11. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    Thanks, Snerd. This is very helpful. I understand about simplifying the Bolt connection by using the Device port to connect to the Antenna in port on the Bolt.

    I don't understand exactly where to put the PoE filter. By "input of the 3-way splitter," do you mean attach the PoE filter directly to the side of the splitter that has just one leg on it?

    One last thing: do I need a PoE filter for the Uverse internet at some place in this setup? The instructions say to place the PoE at the point at which the "cable" enters the house, but since Uverse is DSL, there's not a coax cable to put the PoE on. Or would the PoE you said to put on the 3-way splitter take care of it? Thanks again.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    What @snerd said...

    NOTES:
    • 'NETWORK' port of MM1000 adapters connect to wall outlets;
    • 'DEVICE' port of MM1000 at BOLT OTA should connect to BOLT's coax port;
    • any unused MM1000 'DEVICE' port should be capped with a 75-ohm terminator;
    • "PoE" MoCA filter installed on the input of the 3-way splitter, with the antenna connecting to the filter, to prevent the MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from the antenna; more info >here<;
    • I believe MM1000 adapters include a "PoE" MoCA filter;
    • 3-way splitter would ideally be an unbalanced 3-way (e.g.), with the low-loss port connecting to the BOLT OTA location;
    • 3-way splitter would ideally be a MoCA-compatible model (e.g.);
    lwwphd alt2.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yes. (Though it won't matter much, if you leave the coax port on the gateway disconnected.)

    The raw OTA antenna signal only needs to reach the BOLT OTA. The DVR is responsible for all TV tuning and would stream any live (currently tuning) or recorded (previously tuned) content over the home network to any Minis.

    Since you want the OTA signal to reach the BOLT with minimal attenuation, about the best solution would be to use a 2-way splitter at the central junction to only split the signal the one time enroute to the BOLT OTA; the other leg of the 2-way split would feed another splitter serving your MoCA-only locations. Your special case of having just 3 runs allows for an optimized setup matching this configuration by using an unbalanced 3-way splitter, which is effectively two 2-way splitters cascaded.
     
  14. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    You guys are terrific. Now I know how to correctly connect everything and your suggestions have streamlined the system and made it more functional. I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks again. Lww3
     
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  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The “PoE” MoCA filter’s security function is to prevent MoCA signals from escaping out of the house; but if there aren’t any MoCA signals present then there’s no need for a MoCA filter.

    In your setup the only way out of the house for the MoCA signals is through the antenna (at least per the proposed configuration), so you’d need to locate the MoCA filter to prevent MoCA signals from reaching the antenna. Also to be considered, optimal placement of the MoCA filter keeps the size/scope of the MoCA network as small as is necessary. (Hopefully these guidelines help explain why the filter’s been located as shown in the diagram.)
     
  16. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    Now I get it. The MoCA signals can only "escape" via coax, and since the Uverse signals aren't carried into the house via coax, there's no exit for MoCa signals there and ergo no need for POE filter.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  17. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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  18. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    Can I use a network switch to connect both the Bolt and an Apple TV ( it’s currently running on Wi-Fi only)? Do you recommend a specific product or brand of switch? Thx!
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yep:
    Similar to the following:

    E21B92FD-5728-4396-AB9B-CA20F590537F.png

    I don’t have a specific recommendation aside from it being a Gigabit-capable switch.

    p.s. I’d try this unmanaged model, or its 8-port variant, as needed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A128S24/
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
    lwwphd likes this.
  20. lwwphd

    lwwphd New Member

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    Let’s say the MM1000 takes the place of the TiVo Bridge in your diagram. Can I remove the splitter, connect coax from wall to mm1000 “network” port, and then connect the “device” port with coax to “antenna in” Bolt port? And the ethernet connection would be like in your diagram.
     

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