Upgrading to Premier, any way to get Copy Write Protected movies onto PC or 2nd Tivo?

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by Shanezam203, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. Shanezam203

    Shanezam203 Member

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    Thinking of upgrading my Tivo HD with 1tb WD drive, but I am leary a lot of my movies will not transfer with the Red No Smoking sign, saying copy write protected.

    Any other ways to get them to another Tivo or to my PC through anything other than Tivo Desktop? The media is encrypted where I cant plug the 1tb drive into a computer and drag and drop correct?

    Thank you,

    Shane
     
  2. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    I think you mean "downgrading". The Premier is not an upgrade, especially for someone in your situation.

    Yes, but not with an un-modified TiVo. It would have to be modified. Once done correctly, it can transfer to a PC. It cannot transfer directly to a Premier.

    For more details, see the "other" TiVo forum.

    It's more than just that, although the programs are indeed encrypted. They also reside on a file system your PC cannot read (or write).
     
  3. Shanezam203

    Shanezam203 Member

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    Yeah I am on the fence about upgrading...
    Why specifically is Premier a downgrade from my Series 3 HD with Lifetime?
     
  4. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    The Premier has considerably faster networking capabilities than an unmodified Series III, particularly a THD, but other than that there are very few significant features available on the Premier that are not available on the Series III class machines. The main issue, however, is copy protection cannot be circumvented on the Premier, nor can any other of a host of fairly important features, depending upon one's desires and considrations, be implemented on the Premier. They can be on a modified S3 or THD. This includes the ability to transfer material that would otherwise be copy protected, like the videos on your THD.

    Again, for more details, see the "other" forum.
     
  5. Jan 1, 2012 #5 of 52
    Shanezam203

    Shanezam203 Member

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    You say the Premiere is a Downgrade from the Series 3 Tivo HD, how is that specifically?

    I'm not interested in moding my Tivo any and understand it won't transfer copy written media over any better, other than that what are some advantages and disadvantages of the new Premier box compared to my S3 Tivo HD?

    Thanks,
    Shane
     
  6. Jan 1, 2012 #6 of 52
    Joe01880

    Joe01880 I love my TiVo

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    Faster transfer time between 2 premieres, the HDUI that is functionally slower then a series 3 or THD SDUI, the SDUI of the Premiere is very fast.
    Othen than that, IMO..nothing
     
  7. Jan 1, 2012 #7 of 52
    Shanezam203

    Shanezam203 Member

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    Right, I notice on my Tivo HD when I use the swivel search, it is slow. It will be like that on my Premiere?

    Anyone else upgrade from Tivo HD?
     
  8. Jan 1, 2012 #8 of 52
    wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

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    It's not. Please ignore him. The Premiere is superior in every way, except that it's even more resistant to modification. That's the entirety of lrhorer's objection. For those (like you) who have no intention of hacking it, that's irrelevant.

    You don't have a lot of options, though. The transfers are restricted on the TiVo side, not the Desktop side, so alternative software won't help. Without hacking it, I think you'll have to take the output from the TiVo and feed it into capture hardware, like a video capture card for your computer, or a DVD recorder. And if you want HD to remain HD, you'll have to use the computer.
     
  9. Jan 1, 2012 #9 of 52
    Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

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    That's the point, on a modified Tivo you can disable the encryption and have no red smoking sign so wouldn't be in this situation...
     
  10. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    In a larger sense, the Premier is superior in no way whatsoever. It is slower at networking than a hacked S3, and it offers nothing of value that is not locked down by DRM or other unacceptably restrictive copyright.

    That is an assumption, and a bad one.

    No, it definitely is not. The fact one purchases a platform that has unacceptable features means one implicitly supports those features and encourages their proliferation. The fact one person has no use for services does not make it acceptable for that person to force restrictions on others that prevent their using those services, whether implicitly or explicitly.

    The existence of choice, whether one makes use of it or not, is of utmost importance. I have absolutely no desire to make any use of most of the freedoms I have, but it is utterly imperative that I have those choices to make.

    And you don't see that as relevant?!?!? A lack of options is just unacceptable. We fought a couple of wars over that ideal.

    The simple fact is, if I were to purchase a Premier, it would be a door stop. All, and I mean ALL of the most important features would be missing. Your own software, BTW, which is excellent, would be completely worthless.

    Any platform which eliminated options is unacceptable, the fact I may or may not wish to implement them notwithstanding. I have absolutely no desire to implement Network Caller ID on my TiVos, for example. Indeed, were it enabled without option on the TiVo and were I not quite able to remove it myself, then I would be willing to pay a fair amount to have such an offensive service removed from my TiVos, but it is completely unacceptable the Premier cannot provide this service. The important question is not what I or anyone else specifically chooses, but that we have the ability to choose.

    OTOH, I do definitely want to be able to eliminate the pause advertisements, make efficient use of the search and correlation engines in the TiVo without having to deal with the stupid UI, and freely make whatever legal use of the videos I have in my house I may choose. I also demand that I be able to run whatever software I choose on any computing platform I own. No one - NO ONE - has any right to limit that choice.
     
  11. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    That's your choice, but by making that choice you eliminate several of the more important features available on the TiVo.

    (I think you mean copy protected, not copyrighted.) You understand wrong. Although there are a very large number of features available to a hacked TiVo not available to an unmodified one, for many users the very most important (in some cases the only) additional feature is the ability to disable or circumvent the CCI byte.
     
  12. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    Technically, the "no smoking" sign has nothing to do with a program's being encrypted. On an unmodified TiVo, recordings with CCI=0x00 are still encrypted. Functionally, this means transferring such recordings can be done with the embedded TTG and MRV utilities, which are very slow. If the recordings are unencrypted, then they can be transferred with 3rd party applications irrespective of the CCI byte value. In short, on a modified TiVo, if CCI=0x00, but the program is encrypted then the program can still be transferred using TTG or MRV, but not other utilities (well, it can be transferred, but one can't do much with it). If the value of the CCI byte is other than zero, but the program is unencrypted, then it cannot be transferred using TTG or MRV, but it can be transferred via other utilities and then read or edited to suit the user's requirements.
     
  13. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

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    It's not an assumption; he explicitly stated it.

    You have no sense of the appropriate audience for your rants.

    My own software makes no use of hacked features at all. I have a Premiere. It is not a door stop.
     
  14. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    And then immediately made additional inquiries offline. The entire difference was his own misapprehension that modifying the system would not meet his needs. He may in the end elect not to modify his TiVo, but this fact does not make your assumption warranted, even if he had not qualified his statement (which fact you ignored).

    I have no desire to be sensible of such irrelevancies. This is not a private conversation, it it is a public forum. For every one active participant who has no interest in a specific aspect of a topic there are ten lurkers who do. Responses that only consider the active participants are not only unnecessarily limited and lacking in relevance by comparison, they are in fact arrogant and self centered.

    That is because you are fortunate enough to have a provider who does not copy protect everything they legally can. Although such providers currently serve a slender majority of users, that percentage is dwindling daily. If the trend continues, you will be part of a very small minority, and eventually may be forced to join the other camp. In this case, it is highly likely your tune will change considerably - which means it was never a valid tune from the outset. Certainly in this case it does not apply to the OP. If it is or ever will be his intent to make use of MRV or TTG or similar applications, then the Premier is not an option. It is not an acceptable option in any case, the fact your own personal requirements just happen to be met at the moment notwithstanding.

    If my TiVo's were not hacked, pyTivo would have absolutely nothing to do (as far as videos are concerned, anyway), because it would have no videos on which to perform any actions. To most intents and purposes, pyTiVo is only useful if there is no copy protection in place.
     
  15. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

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    No, actually it's not because of that, although I am fortunate in that regard. The main function of pyTivo is transferring videos from the computer to the TiVo. If there were no recordings that I could pull from the TiVo to the computer -- none at all, zero -- that would affect that function hardly at all. There are a great many sources of video in the world other than TiVos. Most videos that I send to my TiVo did not originate there, nor on other TiVos.

    But no one is even in that extreme situation. All OTA channels are in the clear, and all OTA-equivalent cable channels should be, unless your cable system is acting illegally. And a large portion of what most people watch is on such channels.
     
  16. Shanezam203

    Shanezam203 Member

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    With my Tivo HD I have an external 1tb drive, so I like to record season passes & movies. I never had good luck installing pyTivo the 2 times I tried but I do use Tivo Desktop to stream media from my PC (tivitunes itunes playlists & pics & videos in .Tivo format) and it works well.

    Short of this need to transfer copy write Protected files, I don't do much more. Even if I was replacing my Tivo HD with another Tivo HD and keeping my Lifetime, not all my media would easily sync to my new box. I think that is a bit of a step forward (new equiptment) but a step backwards in regards to my recordings.

    Online Season Pass Manager is nice, that wasn't available when I went from Series 2 to Series 3 HD, so that will help with my 50 Season Passes, it's just frusterating the media on my 1tb drive will be lost if paired with another Tivo & not as easy as you'd think Plug & Play like other USB media devices to a computer are...

    Regarding the new Tivo Premiere, I believe it has almost double the recording space, an upgraded UI & Search + the little LIVE TV built into the Tivo Menu... + it is much smaller in dimensions Width wise & they are throwing in a slider remote, something I was considering buying for $40 - $60 in the past.
     
  17. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    You could set up wish list searches on your premiere to record the copy protected movies when they are aired again. Most movies will be broadcast again eventually. You can only watch so much programming at one time anyway.
     
  18. Shanezam203

    Shanezam203 Member

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    That's what I'll do, I'm ok with that. :up: it just would be nice if whatever was on the 1tb external drive would stay. wonder why it is married to the Tivo box.
     
  19. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    I have one movie recorded (Arabesque) that for some reason won't transfer fully to my Video server. I have been waiting five years for it to be broadcast again. There were more than 60 other videos that until fairly recently I could not transfer, either, and I had been waiting over four years for many of them. I have been waiting more than 10 years for Scavenger Hunt to be re-broadcast, and there is a very long list of programs I have which have some inferior aspect related to them and for which I have been waiting quite some years to be re-broadcast. Depending on the OP's list, it might be many, many years before some of them are re-broadcast. It's up to him, of course, if he chooses to roll the dice.

    The amount of programming one may or may not view in any given interval is irrelevant. The question is one of which videos, not how many.

    Perhaps more importantly, he is going to have the same problem when it comes time to replace the Premier, assuming he buys one now. Indeed, unless he deploys an open platform, then every single time he looks to change or upgrade the platform he will be faced with the same issue. It has only been about 4-1/2 years since the introduction of the THD, so he is potentially looking at facing this issue every 4 - 5 years, or maybe less, and that is assuming he doesn't suffer any hard drive failures along the way.
     
  20. Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

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    I agree, it would be nice if it was a standalone device that could be moved from device to device while loaded with movies etc...,
     

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