Upgrading the LAN to gigabit, no improvement?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by bradleys, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    So, I thought i would go ahead and finally ditch the 10/100 switches sitting on my network to nice new Gigabit switches. I selected the Linksys 8 port SE3008. And just for giggles I thought I would test my new setup against TiVo downloads using KMTTG.

    I chose a file on each of my TiVo's that were approximately the same size @ about 5.5G, but the results are odd...

    I also tested a simple copy from my PC to my WD EX2 My Cloud and the file is still only moving at ~ 40 MB/s Any thoughts? PC has a Realtek PCIe Family controller

    10/100 switch
    Roamio TiVo with gigabit port: 91.48 Mbps
    Premiere TiVo with 10/100 port: 74.07 Mbps

    Gigabit Switch
    Roamio TiVo with gigabit port: 91.32 Mbps
    Premiere TiVo with 10/100 port: 73.49 Mbps

    This is my network map...

    And my monitor during the transfer from the Roamio

    My monitor moving a 6GB file from PC to NAS
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  2. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2015
    Philly suburbs
    I think you’re limited by the TiVo’s network adapter speed, won’t go any faster than that though it does appear improved over 10/100. Copies from PC to an external HD can also be affected by how slow Windows copies files, its not purely a network speed issue, you may have to tweak PC settings to see improved speeds.
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    Nov 25, 2003
    If you have a laptop available, you can use iPerf/jPerf or LAN Speed Test between the laptop and PC to baseline your network segment speeds.
  4. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    I will try that tomorrow when I can borrow my wife’s laptop.

    I was just hoping for something more significant- especially PC to NAS
  5. dirtsy

    dirtsy Member

    Oct 29, 2017
    Under the...
    Please, correct me if I am wrong here, but I thought the Roamio was limited to 100 Mbps "Fast Ethernet" and it was with the Bolt that 1000 Mbps "Gigabit Ethernet" was introduced?
  6. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    You made me look! My Roamio Plus has gigabit... The base unit has 10/100

    TiVo® Roamio Comparison Chart - compare the TiVo Roamio Models
    dirtsy likes this.
  7. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    Not sure about the PC to NAS speeds which at least are above 200Mbps. I'd guess I/O on either end is limiting this. Were you copying 1 large file or a lot of smaller files?

    On the Roamio to PC transfer, it looks like you have something limiting that to 100Mbps so make sure the Roamio has negotiated a 1Gbps connection with the attic switch and see if the connection between the distribution closet switch and office switch is 1Gbps. Can you temporarily connect the Roamio to the Office switch and repeat the test?

    krkaufman likes this.
  8. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2002
    Check the router settings. Some versions and or firmware versions don't really support gig. Make sure you're not using moca. The tivo settings should be wired Ethernet not both.
    Based on personal experience, router specs suggest other
  9. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    So, the reason I could not get over the 10/100 barrier outside of my office is rather embarrassing.

    When my house was built, it was pre-wired with Ethernet CAT5e - but terminated with two wires connected to a telephone adapter at the wall plates.

    When I added hard Ethernet drops 12 years ago, I left the one twisted pair for phone and used the remaining three pairs for Ethernet and had the lines segmented split in an old school distribution box along with my cable slitter in the attic.

    I went up into the attic last night and was thinking "What the hell is all this crap!" Jesus, I do not even remember doing that - I must have been drinking!

    I only use one phone line - I will hardwire that. Everything else gets pulled and re-terminated.
    dirtsy, tim1724 and krkaufman like this.
  10. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    Apr 17, 2000
    Are you transferring to a PC using TiVoToGo?

    That's limited by the speed of the CPU in the unit itself not really the network. TiVoToGo uses realtime encryption and muxing, so it can only transfer as fast as the CPU in the TiVo itself can encrypt and mux the stream. You'll get slightly better results if you set all tuners to a channel you don't receive so that it's not buffering anything, but even then I think the Roamio pro can only do slightly better then 100Mbps. The Bolt can go faster because it has a faster CPU, but even then I think it's a little less then 200Mbps and no where near 1Gbps.
  11. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    Meh, I am just weird. I setup a gigabit network, I want the damn thing to actually be a gigabit network!

    I stream a lot over plex on my network and I would rather ensure that the network is not a limiting factor.

    I use KMTTG to download from my TiVo's and the download speed really ins't an issue for me. But damn that encode takes forever! I am grabbing the Olympics for my daughter and it took twelve hours to encode the 3.5 hour prime-time capture to MPG4!
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  12. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    Finished reorganizing and terminating all the lines - @Dan203 was correct, it didn’t increase the Roamio download speed. :)
  13. Abextra

    Abextra New Member

    Jul 6, 2013
    This topic of LAN speed on the Premier is being covered in the help forum as well. Seems to be limited to average 35 -45 mbs
  14. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    Oct 30, 2003
    I'm not sure about the Roamio Pro, but I recall reading the the Premiere XL4 had a gigabit switch internally between the Ethernet port, the MoCA adapter, and the motherboard of the TiVo itself, but the TiVo motherboard only had a 10/100 adapter on it. That may be what's happening here as well, as it looks like a 100mbps connection limiting transfer speeds. If not, it's a CPU limitation.
  15. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Aug 21, 2002
    New York...
    In the real world, almost no LAN connection will come close to saturating a gigabit network - that is the point of gigabit Ethernet. The reason to have GigE is to support multiple simultaneous sessions of 100-200 Mbps each. IMHO, 200 Mbps is about average for a file transfer across a GigE LAN. I have a GigE LAN and a symmetric gigabit internet connection. I can drive the local LAN to about 600 to 700 Mbps or so by getting a ~ 150 Mbps download going from the internet, running a backup from another PC to my NAS (~ 300 Mbps), and copying a large file between two other PCs (~ 250 Mbps). Unless you are copying from a SSD to another SSD, I don't think you can do much better than that.
    PSU_Sudzi likes this.
  16. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    ??? I've been getting 940 Mb/s throughput over my GigE LAN for many years. My GigE LAN has been a major bottleneck for me since I started using SSDs in 2009.
    But even with platter drives I still get 940Mb/s throughput over my Gigabit network. Since most of my platter drives get around 1.4 Gb/s average transfer rates when I internally transfer my UHD ISOs to them from an SSD.

    The last time I had slow 600Mb/s speeds over gigabit network was back in the early 2000's. Way back in 2001 I switched my home LAN from 100BT to 1000BT. Strictly so I could transfer the 40GB to 60GB of HD recordings I had each week, quicker to the PC I had setup for network storage of my HD recordings. Prior to the GigE network, the transfer of my HD recordings was laboriously slow with only a 100Mb/s link. But those slow platter drives back then limited the throughput on the gigabit network.

    Back then the only way I reached 940Mb/s throughput was when I transferred between a three or four drive RAID 0 setup in one machine to a three or four drive RAID 0 setup in another machine. I wasted way too much money back then on drives and GigE Ethernet cards. Those cards cost over $100 back then. I had to have several in just one PC since I used a PC as a router and a firewall back then. Plus all my other PCs needed a GigE card as well. Until the consumer GigE switches came out later.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    Bigg likes this.
  17. smark

    smark Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2002
    Denver, CO
    I stream over Plex on gigabit and the network won't be the factor. It's going to be the machine you have the files on and what kind (if any) transcoding it has to do.
  18. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    Oct 30, 2003
    That might be true on the WAN side, or on LAN 15 years ago, but many machines today can saturate gigabit several times over. Even my 7 year old MBP with a relatively slow SSD can saturate a gigabit connection. I haven't looked into benchmarking my own machine, but based on reviews, the SSD in my machine could saturate a 10gbE connection plus half of another one easily. It is true, however, that most HDDs today are quite slow, and often are the bottleneck more than the network is.
  19. kdmorse

    kdmorse Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2001
    Germantown, MD
    Yah, I'm going to have to jump on the "1Gbps is easy to 'saturate' with a single file copy" bandwagon. When Gigabit Ethernet was new, yah, you had to fight and tune (and rearrange IRQ's, adjust transmit/receive buffers, fight with segmentation offloading, adjust receive interrupt steering, and fight interrupt coalescing) just to get past 500Mbps. But those days are far behind us.
    Even just before SSD's it wasn't too hard - a single copy command on the command line, or a simple ftp, could do it - if the sun, moon, and stars all aligned right. I just pulled two 2TB HD's, which are 5-8 years old (from back when 2TB was as big as you could get), from a system, and even they were capable of saturating a 1G link while doing backups. (Large sequential reads).

    But since the world of 5 years ago when SSD's started reshaping the landscape, it became borderline trivial, for everyone. My 1Gbps network is *always* the bottleneck in a file operation. The 950Mbps I get on average for a file copy is just too damn slow. And I deeply regret not including 10Gbps on my nas, or my last switch refresh.

    But that's just a tangent to the original question of Tivo to Tivo transfer speed, which on a 1Gig network is always going to be limited internally by the Tivo.
    jrtroo and Bigg like this.
  20. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Aug 21, 2002
    New York...
    Sure the hardware can easily saturate a GigE LAN, but few if any applications (outside of benchmarks) operate anywhere close the hardware. I stand by the statement that in most GigE LANs, under normal everyday operation, any given session rarely exceeds 200-300 Mbps.

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