Upcoming Android TV, FireTV, AppleTV and Roku apps

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by ric hardt, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. ric hardt

    ric hardt Member

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    Yes I know these aren't out yet but just wondering if there was some technical reason they couldn't playback streams from Tivo same as Mini without transcoding? I understand that not all streaming devices are mpeg2 capable however a lot are fully capable including current 4k FireTV stick, Nvidia Shield and maybe even new Roku? This would improve the end user picture quality as no transcoding would be necessary. Anyone know why this isn't being implemented? Ted?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  2. Mar 1, 2019 #2 of 30
    lucidrenegade

    lucidrenegade Member

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    I asked this same question in a reply to Ted's post about the apps and never got a response.
     
  3. Mar 1, 2019 #3 of 30
    ric hardt

    ric hardt Member

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    Maybe for non-technical reasons it's a complex issue? I can understand Tivo wanting to sell more Mini's but honestly when you can plug in a FireTV stick to a TV mounted on the wall, why deal with an external STB? Current Fire TV stick and many other streaming devices can decode mpeg2 so I don't see why there would be a limitation. Would love to get Ted's input on this topic.
     
  4. Mar 1, 2019 #4 of 30
    JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ted visits almost daily, but hasn't posted in a month.
     
  5. Mar 1, 2019 #5 of 30
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    The experience you get from a Mini is almost certainly going to be better than anything that you could get from a streaming stick.
     
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  6. Mar 1, 2019 #6 of 30
    ric hardt

    ric hardt Member

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    I don't mean to go off into a tangential however I respectfully disagree. If you are referring to the "experience" solely as a DVR, yes the Tivo Mini will always be preferable as it fully replicates the Tivo "experience" (including the remote) however that comes at the expense of the user "experience" as the Tivo Mini's capabilities are far less capable as an internet streaming device. Streaming devices capable of decoding mpeg2 may not be able to replicate Tivo Mini trick play or ease of navigating through content however they are absolutely fully able to view mpeg2 recorded content natively without additional transcoding with the exact same picture quality as a Mini. As we are always trying out new things, I've tested Channels DVR and there is no issue with playback or navigation of native mpeg2 live or recorded TV content with the Fire TV stick. All I am asking is why don't the new apps running on devices capable of decoding mpeg2 access the Tivo without transcoding? I would not think DRM is an issue on devices with appropriate certification and it would not be an issue at all for OTA content.
     
  7. Mar 1, 2019 #7 of 30
    trip1eX

    trip1eX Well-Known Member

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    I can think of many possible answers.

    1) $$$. Both they want to sell more MInis and it probably costs them money to implement, test and support MPEG2 streaming to non-Tivo devices. They already had the ability to stream to mobile devices so they just use that. Also why develop a feature which they don't even support for their MInis?

    2) Few care. Does the average customer care? Doubt it. Which leads back to answer #1. Why spend the money.

    3) Average customer experience. HOw many customers can reliably wirelessly stream mpeg2 to their Firestick device stuck in the back of their from the Tivo that may be in some other room? Isn't mpeg2 fairly inefficient? Tivo doesn't even support wirelessly streaming to their Minis. And this leads back to #1 which is why spend the money.

    4) Have you seen the pace of release of Tivo features over the years? It's not fast. They aren't selling millions of Tivos every year. IT's tens of thousand at best I think. They have to prioritize which leads back #1 and #2 and #3.
     
  8. Mar 1, 2019 #8 of 30
    ric hardt

    ric hardt Member

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    1. I agree with your opinion that the likely reasoning is the desire to sell more Minis. No one is suggesting they develop new streaming protocols, the Fire TV or Android TV app would just access the same mpeg2 streams as the Mini.

    2. Average customer? I honestly don't know. I would hope you'd agree the market is rapidly shifting and the Tivo model of central DVR with satellite proprietary clients is rapidly losing appeal and market share, not just to online streaming services but to other competing DVR products. Would a product like Tablo TV even exist had TiVo developed a better streaming platform? Forcing customers to buy more Mini's is not a recipe for sucess. IMHO TiVo is the premiere DVR however it's weakness is the inability to integrate with other devices. Hopefully the new streaming apps will bridge that gap. What I'm proposing is not major re-engineering rather it would mean the app has option to receive the same full resolution non transcoded stream as the Mini.

    3. I used to share your reservation about wireless streaming and wanted all my connected devices to be hard wired however that recently changed. The 40 dollar Fire TV stick has zero issues streaming mpeg2 live or recorded content. Didn't TiVo just release a wireless bridge which is sending mpeg2 over wifi?

    4. I agree with your assessment of pace of development and sales. Most of us here hopefully want to see TiVo succeed, which does not mean continuing the status quo. My suggestion for a TiVo app accessing the same streams as the Mini should not be viewed a threat rather it would be complementary.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  9. RyanL

    RyanL New Member

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    Any word on the release date yet for Rokus?
     
  10. mrizzo80

    mrizzo80 Well-Known Member

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    Not that I've heard. FireTV is due first, then Roku, then Apple TV. FireTV isn't out yet, and I haven't even heard rumblings of a beta. But I've never participated in a TiVo beta, so I'm not sure if we'd know when the beta starts.
     
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  11. OrangeCrush

    OrangeCrush Active Member

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    Back in January (at CES) Ted said "Q2/Q3," so anytime between now and September. Experience tells me to expect September. Or maybe Christmas.
     
  12. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    Mini requires wired Ethernet (or MoCA). Wireless might not be an issue for systems which heavily compress but might be for systems/channels with higher quality.

    AFAIK all program sources (Netflix, Amazon,....)for streaming devices have the ability to lower picture quality if necessary. I've that's a requirement for some streaming sticks. I don't know if Netflix trans codes on the fly or has multiple versions of the same movie, at different bitrates, ready to stream. An app for a streaming device has to have the ability to adjust picture quality (transcode) as needed.

    One poster, I don't remember who, said Apple has (had?) a requirement requiring a fall back to audio only if necessary.

    How about the option to CAST from our mobile device to a chromecast enabled TV? Airplay for apple?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    Noelmel likes this.
  13. jkudlacz

    jkudlacz Member

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    Anything new on the Radar? Need that app badly lol.
     
  14. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    We know that two different pay TV providers (Service Electric and RCN) are supposed to be deploying IPTV systems any day now that use the new "TiVo Next-Gen Platform". And part of that platform is "TiVo for Streamers," which means the upcoming apps for Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV and Android TV. So...soon?

    (Although it's possible that Service Electric and RCN roll out the platform now on their own boxes, which both plan to do, and not give their customers the option to use their own streamers for the IPTV service until the apps appear in a few months.)
     
  15. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Active Member

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    [QUOTE="lew, post: 11775647, member: 19266")
    How about the option to CAST from our mobile device to a chromecast enabled TV? Airplay for apple?[/QUOTE]
    The TiVo app doesn’t support Airplay, don’t know about chrome cast.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  16. pfiagra

    pfiagra Active Member

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    After Amazon’s shipment debacle, I have now received my Fire TV 4K stick from the Prime Day sale.

    So, TiVo, you may now release your Fire TV app!
     
    Mikeguy likes this.
  17. trip1eX

    trip1eX Well-Known Member

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    weird I never once mentioned picture quality. :)

    The line you're referring to was about the average customer caring whether or not something is transcoded or not ie caring what the underlying tech behind the picture is. They don't.
     
    Joe3 likes this.
  18. tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Well-Known Member

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    There is a sort of "app" already: You can use miracast to put your phone screen on a firestick display (at least it works for my samsung galaxy s9+), you just have to spend a half a day on google finding where they hid the controls to enable casting on the firestick and start casting on the phone (and they are well hidden).
     
  19. pfiagra

    pfiagra Active Member

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    Sounds like a “pain in the app”
     
    tomhorsley and Joe3 like this.
  20. jkudlacz

    jkudlacz Member

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    Any news on Tivo App? I found this on Tivo website but looks like currently this is ONLY available for Enterprise Clients not regular customers like us. I am actually borderline on Tivo lately, if this app becomes available soon this would get me over the Edge - get it. TiVo for Android TV | TiVo
     

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