Unwanted TiVo Forced Ads in Guide Now Taking TWO available Lines

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by V7Goose, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. Charles R

    Charles R Well-Known Member

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    With TiVo you don't purchase the service rather you are granted a license to use the software and it's subject to change at anytime...

    TiVo grants you a personal, non-commercial, and non-exclusive license to (1) access and use our websites, (2) install and use our software applications on devices that you own or control, (3) use software that is embedded in (or downloaded to) TiVo hardware products, and (4) access and use our hosted services using authorized TiVo products.

    Features and functionality are subject to change. We reserve the right to determine the timing and content of software updates, which may be automatically downloaded and installed by TiVo products without prior notice to you.
     
  2. schatham

    schatham Well-Known Member

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  3. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    I own my DirecTV DVR and Minis. But with DirecTV, you pay a monthly fee to "use" the box, called "Advanced Receiver Service - DVR". But the box is mine. And I can keep it if I ever cancel service, or upgrade DVRs.

    I also pay a $3 monthly fee called "Whole Home Service", that allows me to use my Minis, as many as I own.
     
  4. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    But given its decades of marketing and otherwise bragging about its features, it strikes loyal, long-time users who also have PROMOTED TiVo to friends and family, as a sort of "Bait and Switch" or an abandonment of TiVo's core functionality enjoyed for over 20 years even though TiVo does reserve the right to bite the hand that feeds them anytime they feel like it, especially having paid out thousands for a few TiVo STB's, clients, service fees or Lifetime/All-In. It is not as if TiVo used the cable/satellite model of providing NO CHARGE for all the equipment and installation costs, and consumers may chose to leave at any time with cable or 2 years with satellite, many do move on to a competitor after two years who also pays for everything at installation and even then that consumer is still ahead of any TiVo owners who paid for their own DVR's and clients, and accessories and that whopping Lifetime/All-In. And even selling TiVo equipment on sites such as Fleabay do NOT bring a FULL return on investment and worse today with TiVo's S3 to S5's going for basement bargain prices: a buyer's market; not a seller's market.

    The ONLY TiVo that makes economic sense today for most people is the TiVo OTA's with no additional costs for the TiVo Service. Those are legitimately good deals, and then there is the Amazon Recast option with is also a very good deal, especially with no service fees. One can accept ads on a Recast because Amazon is paying the costs of the EPG metadata. TiVo, on the other hand, has not offered any discount--NOTHING--in exchange for the ads it forces on subscribers who pay the full retail and full All-in. Perhaps an Edge priced at much less than current MSRP, and then make the money on the TiVo SERVICE charges/All-in might have made the ads acceptable on the TiVo. Otherwise, it really has caused some long time TiVo lovers to leave.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  5. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    There are plenty of used Roamios with lifetime service that also make economic sense, and they are the best Tivos ever made. Even moreso with TE3 and kmttg auto-skip so you don't have to see this new Tivo nonsense.
     
  6. Charles R

    Charles R Well-Known Member

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    I'm about as long term as one can get and I have no issue with TiVo altering the service. Once it no longer fits my needs I'll move on.

    Not sure why you think you shouldn't have to pay. However for close to two decades I never have... always purchased sale models with Lifetime. When I upgraded I either broke even or made a few dollars either from sale pricing or upgrading the drive. Currently have a whopping $199 invested in which I could turn over without a loss.

    Obviously TiVo isn't successful with these long time customers and as they attempt to pivot (to be successful) many will fall off as their new products don't serve their needs... if they did they wouldn't be attractive to the larger market.
     
  7. mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

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    I think a big part of the problem for long time loyal users is that TiVo IS NOT the same company now. Because it has the same name doesnt mean it has the same loyalty to it's customers or the same goals it used to have.
     
  8. Charles R

    Charles R Well-Known Member

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    I have always posted to my thinking the real issue is some people feel since they "purchased" their TiVo they own it. And are fine if TiVo decides to alter the service such as adding AutoSkip but the moment they do something they don't like it's my box and you have no right to alter it...
     
  9. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    I personally think you are very wrong there.

    When you buy a product outright, you have every reason in the world to expect to get AT LEAST as good a product as you were TOLD you were buying (aka 'the specifications' + any additional sales hype the seller might have chosen to lie about). If you get the product and find that it does not do what you were TOLD you were buying, you have every right in the world to demand either a fix or a total refund. Furthermore, once you own a product, you have every right in the world to expect that you will CONTINUE to be able to use it in exactly the same way for as long as you desire (often called "quiet enjoyment"). We all acknowledge, however, that external factors are totally out of the control of the seller. For example, if you have an old analog TV or Series 2 TiVo that still works fine, you have no right of expectation that some third-party broadcaster will continue to offer an analog signal for you to receive.

    The difference with TiVo is that they have come in AFTER the sale and unilaterally TAKEN AWAY some of the features and functionality that I ALREADY PAID FOR. And they have changed things that make my continued use of the product much more difficult. They have, in fact, broken the implied contract of merchantability or fitness for a specific purpose. If they want to ADD features, well, even those I should have the CHOICE of accepting or not. For example, most people seem to love the auto commercial skip, but NOT ME. I hate it, I do not trust it, and I will never accept it, but I do not complain about it; because, they gave me the capability to TURN IT OFF.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  10. Charles R

    Charles R Well-Known Member

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    Of which they gave you clear warning. From the license post above...

    Features and functionality are subject to change. We reserve the right to determine the timing and content of software updates, which may be automatically downloaded and installed by TiVo products without prior notice to you.

    There is never an "after" the sale with licensing as you never purchased anything such as a set of "features" you happen to prefer.
     
  11. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    Yeah, keep kidding yourself. Would you spew forth the same nonsense if they sent out an update that disabled all the tuners in your TiVo (which the have the "right" to do) just because they got tired of hearing people complain that the signal strength meter no longer works? Or maybe they will do that to try and force existing customers to buy their new unwanted streaming device instead of using OTA? Or maybe they will do that just so they do not have to keep maintaining the crappy guide data that they are so bad at doing?
     
  12. Charles R

    Charles R Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Don't mistake what I feel they have every right to do (per the license) with what I would prefer.
     
  13. janitor53

    janitor53 Member

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    I don't understand the leadership at Tivo. There is clearly a giant and growing market for OTA TV service as evidenced by the fact that companies like Amazon are getting in to the business. I also talked to a local antenna salesman last week and he said he was so busy that when someone calls for a new antenna he's at least 3 weeks out. That seems like a growing business to me. I don't understand why Tivo isn't taking this opportunity and striking it rich with an awesome product and great service. It just doesn't make a lick of sense.
     
  14. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    Interest in free OTA (often for sports or live news) does not necessarily translate into the desire for DVR functionality. Many consumers just want to connect an antenna to their TV. They don't have a need to connect the antenna to a separate device, and an external HD, and then have other devices at other devices too who need to access the recordings. Most of the existing OTA recording options on the market today are way too complicated for your typical consumer. Even a TiVo Stream4K + external OTA recorder/external HD would be way more effort than most people would put up with.

    Many consumers are happy with live OTA to a single TV and then streaming services otherwise.

    Hard to believe, but not everyone cares about recording/time-shifting.
     
  15. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Really? Is it so hard to connect one's antenna input to a TiVo box rather than to the TV, and then an HDMI (or analog) cable from the TiVo box to the TV? And who wouldn't appreciate and like the ability to pause the TV, skip commercials, replay the last few seconds, automatically record shows, etc., and using a superior TiVo peanut remote?
     
  16. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Just change "antenna input" to "cable" and have somebody do it for you. That's cable.
     
  17. johnsom

    johnsom New Member

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    I fully agree. I did not buy the Tivo hardware and service to have ads inserted into the start of shows and the guide. This is exactly why I will not upgrade any longer. I looked at the Tivo+ content and there is nothing of interest to me. Why can't these "channels" be placed at the end of the guide list?
     
  18. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    As long as you're aware that every other cable DVR/guide combo has ads. Every. Other. One.
     
  19. Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    Channels DVR does not. Not a mainstream product, but still.
     
  20. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    I was speaking of the other OTA products besides TiVo, the headless recorder types. (Recast, Tablo, etc)

    But don’t discount the inability of many consumers to even hook up TiVo.
     

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