Ultimate Wireless Network

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by vlxjim, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD

    Advertisements

    The concept of Bridging *usually* implies two consistent, similar (if not identical) devices wirelessly connected exclusively to each other. Different manufacturers implement this differently. Belkin throws in a hybrid router/AP/Bridge Mode for its routers IF they're IDENTICAL! The G810 MAY bridge with the D-Link router, if the router has this capability - but you will be best served with Client mode.

    Any switch should do fine - Linksys, D-Link, Trenwarde, Siemens, SMC etc etc - any brand should do. Make sure its an autosensing 10/100 switch (not a hub - although the performance ramifications of that difference shouldn't affect your network and having a TiVo and PS2 connected to it). Pick the cheapest available major-ish brand one - its difficult to screw up a switch, they all work well!

    I imagine having only ONE wireless connection active (G810 in client mode to the Router) as opposed to TWO (Game Adapter and G810) should be preferable. My (older b) network always started to get disproportionately slower as I added wireless devices. Subtle, but noticeable. And your configuration and number of points-of-potential-issues is also halved ;)
     
  2. tivoboyjr

    tivoboyjr Unregistered User

    5,697
    0
    Apr 28, 2003
    I returned the Dlink equipment I had bought because I couldn't get it to work - after a lot of back and forth, a Dlink tech told me the router was defective and said I should return it.

    I went to Circuit City and got two of the Belkin F5D7231-4 routers and configured one as an access point to use with my Tivo, but I can't get that setup to work, either. Do I set it up as an access point or a bridge, or both? I've been using it just as an AP, and that isn't working. I've read through this thread a few times now, and I feel like I'm missing something. I've tried Tivo on "Obtain an IP Address Automatically" and also manually configured it, and it won't connect. I either get a "connection failed" message or "gateway not found" or "the DHCP server was not found on the network." Once, it told me the settings seemed valid, but still wouldn't connect. In HMO, if I enter the router address (or the AP address) it says "server not found."

    I haven't been able to connect to the internet using my notebook with an ethernet cable and the AP, either.

    I was able to get connected and also access HMO by using a Netgear game adapter with my old Linksys B router, but that was intended to just be an experiment, because the game adapter is very expensive and these Belkin routers are pretty cheap at the moment. Also, if I'm going to be spending on networking equipment, I'd like to be able to move up to a G router.

    When I tried the netgear game adapter with the Belkin router (instead of using the access point), the tivo did show up in the DHCP client list and I was able to ping the tivo, but still couldn't connect.

    I called Belkin tech support and the guy wasn't really helpful. He kept telling me to just connect the AP to the router via an ethernet cable instead of using it for wireless access, which defeats the purpose, and he had never heard of Tivo, so I didn't spend a lot of time with him.

    I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks
     
  3. alex25

    alex25 New Member

    4
    0
    Dec 31, 2003
    I'm attempting to do the two Linksys router set-up as described in Post #97. I've upgraded the firmware to the sveasoft and configured the routers per the instructions. However, I cannot get TiVO to recognize the wireless network connection. Is there anything special that I need to do in the TiVO menu to get this to work? I have a feeling that the two routers are talking to one another, but the TiVO doesn't appear to be picking that up. The set-up I have is as follows: 1 Linksys WRT54G router at my PC, 1 WRT54G router connected to the TiVO via a Linksys USB200M.

    Any help would be most appreciated.
     
  4. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    tivoboyjr ...
    - set the first Belkin router (connected to broadband or your existing home router) to enable wireless bridging
    - config the 2nd Belkin router (connected to the TiVo via a USB eth adapter) to Access Point AND Wireless bridge. Enter each other's WLAN MAC ids (see under router, label on left usually) - so they can authorize each other and look for each other when they bridge

    alex25 - your Tivoi needs to think its on a wired network, as the USB200M is a Wired USB-eth adapter. Once your routers are bridging fine (test with 2 pcs/laptopt if possible) THEN config the TiVo's settings for static or DHCP per your setup
     
  5. alex25

    alex25 New Member

    4
    0
    Dec 31, 2003

    Advertisements

    Ashu-

    The router that is wired to my PC is the DHCP. I had TiVO "Obtain IP Address from DHCP" and it received one. Would the TiVO be able to get an IP address if the router that was connected to it was not communicating with the router at my PC?
     
  6. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    Nope - it wouldn't get an IP if the two routers were not succesfully Bridged. Seems you're doing fine.

    Can your PC ping the TiVo's IP address? If you have 7.1 and the new Desktop, can your PC see the TiVo?

    Can you see the Music and Photos served with Desktop (or whatever application) from the PC?
     
  7. markandjenn

    markandjenn Member

    480
    0
    Sep 21, 2003
    South Florida
    Ashu -

    Can any router be used in such a way?

    Specifically, Best Buy is has the D-Link DI-524 found here for $20 after rebates. If I bought 3 of these, one for my PC and 1 for each of my 2 TiVos, can I bridge the three of them together?
     
  8. tivoboyjr

    tivoboyjr Unregistered User

    5,697
    0
    Apr 28, 2003
    Thanks for your help, ashu. I've got them set up the way you described, but the access point still isn't working. If I plug it in to the ethernet port on my notebook, I can't access the internet and it doesn't show up on the DHCP client list for the router.

    I've restarted the computers a couple of times to see if that would help, but there's no change.
     
  9. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    Hmmy, test the USB-eth adapter by plugging it into your laptop's USB port. (It may need to have its drivers installed - but probably not). Remeber to disable your existing network connection and enable this, and in its settings, specify Obtain IP automatically (DHCP).

    The adapter may be bad.
     
  10. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    No - the router must have bridging support built-in.

    I'd head to the dlink website and download the manual for this router (they have PDFs for everything!). My DLink 614+ did not have Bridging built in.

    Also, bear in mind that since this is not an official 802.11 group spec, every manuf. implements it differently, often across their own product lines!

    The Belkin G router is also $20 (after rebates) this week somewhere - OD, CompUSA? Model 7230-4 or 7231-4 (buy all identical). Prefer the White box 7230 - although the (older) red box will also work with a mixed config with the newer ones (I have one old, two new) Also, remember that most rebates are only valid one-per-household and address ;)
     
  11. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    NOTES: for anyone using MORE THAN ONE Belkin 72xx-4 router in bridged/AP mode ...

    After much angst and hair-pulling my current config is slightly modified
    - Each 'terminal' router's Bridge menu only has the MAC ID of ONE OF the other G routers in a chain kind of system. Having all router MACs as permitted routers did not cut it - I think this router's Bridging has some 'indecisiveness' built in - ping times were off the chart (more than a second) :D
    (What do I mean by 'Terminal'? - Well - the one G router connected to my main B router is a terminal router, and the 3rd one connected to two bedroom TiVos is terminal. The one in the den connected to the PCs has MAC ids of both the other two as allowed bridge APs. Yes - the TiVos in the bedroom and the TiVos downstairs now HAVE TO hope through )

    - Now ALL of them are running in AP/Bridge mode, and not doing ANY routing or DHCP. One of them is connected (LAN port to LAN port - not WAN/uplink!) to my old B router (which serves up a B network for my only B TiVo - the one I'll sell soon, adapter and all ;) ) and every device in my network is hooked to LAN ports on either the old B router, or the 3 G routers' LAN ports.
    - The 3 G routers are now free to run in G-exclusive mode, SSID disabled, WPA - because the only B device (TiVo incapable of WPA) on my soon-to-be-sold or gifted TiVo is served by the 'main' D-Link router.

    I finally have consistent low ping times, quick reaction/transfer times and better feel-good WPA security (with the WEP "hole" to be plugged soon too)
     
  12. yakima2k

    yakima2k New Member

    12
    0
    Jan 17, 2005
    Okay, I just got off the phone with D-link products support and the guy I talked to suggested that I wouldn't be able to put a switch behind the G810, that the G810 will only support one ethernet device attached and not switches. I asked him why the hell D-link sells switches and he said it was only to increase ports on a router or access point. He then gave me the ridiculous suggestion to buy two 2100AP access points at $100 apiece to bridge the network and then use hard wired ethernet adapters to connect the multiple devices to the AP. But he says I need two AP's because the DI-624 router won't bridge with the access point, which has to be a lie.

    This all sounds like complete baloney to me. If anyone can tell me if there is any truth to the story this guy gave me please let me know. I refuse to believe that the only way to network multiple ethernet devices is either with multiple bridges or this complicated and expensive access point setup.

    Has anyone actually put a switch behind a bridge and had it work?

    What I've got on the way is a DSS 5+ ethernet switch, a G810 bridge, and the DUB-E100 adapter, my intent being to connect my Playstation 2 (currently networked using a gaming adapter) and my RS-TX20 behind the bridge and connected to the switch.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  13. tivoboyjr

    tivoboyjr Unregistered User

    5,697
    0
    Apr 28, 2003
    Ashu, I wasn't even using the USB adapter in this test. I just plugged a ethernet cable into the AP/bridge and the notebook computer. I am sure the adapter works, btw, because I had used it with the netgear game adapter and my Linksys router.

    I read the "notes" you posted re Belkin routers. Re note one, each router just has one mac address listed, as you instructed earlier. The router has the AP mac address and the AP has the router mac address.

    I don't really get note 2. FYI, when I'm done with this, I will have two tivos connected this way (I'm starting with just one), a notebook connected via PCMCIA card and two other computers hard-wired. This is my "old" setup via the Linksys router - and subtracting the tivo.
     
  14. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    yakima2k, a switch behind a bridge device RUNNING in CLIENT mode *should* work. My DWL-900AP+ running in router mode supports
    - a switch with additional ethernet devices connected to it, clamoring for DHCP IP even
    - a router, with the DWL-900AP+ connected to the WAN/uplink port

    Does the pdf manual on D-Link's website show support for client mode?
     
  15. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    (Ignore my note 2 - only of issue if you have 3 or more 7230-4 or 7231-4)

    tivoboyjr ... hmm, I can't imagine why the 7231's won't work. Maybe one is faulty? I have 7230-4's (2 2004 variants, and one 2003 variant) and they all play toegterh real nice despite slightly different (up-to-date) firmware versions.

    Maybe the 7231 is different? Have you studied the addendum (PDF) document about bridging (I attached it - its off the 7230 page on Belkin's website).

    Are you uing the same subnet? Both routers (first one in router/bridge mode, second one in bridge/ap mode) MUST be on the same subnet
    Try 192.168.0.10, 192.168.0.11 respectively!

    Try this ...

    - Keep the 2 routers in one place, by your main PC and cable modem (or DSL or whatever)
    - PC ethernet - static IP 192.168.0.100, DNS 192.168.0.10 (the IP of main router/AP/bridge), Gateway (same: .10)
    - set one 7231-4 up as the router/bridge, and ensure that the pc that is hardwired to it can connect to the internet
    - then connect the PC to one of the LAN ports on the second router, and access that 2nd routers config page (at http://192.168.0.11) ensuring its Access Point Mode is enabled and its bridging is enabled with the WLAN MAC id of the other router permitted (NOT the LAN or WAN MAC!)
    - the PC SHOULD be able to access the internet via the wireless link

    Replicate on the TiVo. Of course, DHCP would work too - since only the main router (.10) will be a DHCP server in this scenario.

    To set up wireles networking, if you're having issues - always go the simplest route to eliminate potential failure points - no WEP/WPA, no B mode (54G-only), turn off the 'Turbo or Frameburst' modes etc etc. Then build them in after you get it working with the basics.

    <edit> attachemtn's too big - its available online (Wireless bridge.pdf on their site)
     
  16. yakima2k

    yakima2k New Member

    12
    0
    Jan 17, 2005
    The G810 manual says it has two settings which D-link calls "infrastructure" mode and "ad hoc" mode. The way the diagrams in the manual show, "ad hoc" is for interconnecting devices, like if you want your laptop and pc to share files and share a printer. "Infrastructure" is for connecting devices to a single router or access point.

    Do you think the "infrastructure" setting is the same as "client" mode?

    I can't understand conceptually why a switch behind a bridge shouldn't work. I mean, isn't the switch's only purpose to play traffic cop for ethernet devices that want access to bandwidth. What difference does it make to the switch whether it's connected to a bridge or a router or an access point?

    Thanks for all your insights so far, ashu.
     
  17. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    Use infrastructure.

    The setting (client vs bridge vs repeater etc) should be under a different sub-menu. I can hunt dow nt e pdf manual later and figure it out, but you should find it under 'Advanced' or some other tab. There are multiple tabs on the web-interface (don't use the D-Link software - its weak). Tabs are laid out horizontally near the top of the page, and subsection are listed as vertical tabs in the left 'frame' of the page. Go through them all until you find it :)
     
  18. tivoboyjr

    tivoboyjr Unregistered User

    5,697
    0
    Apr 28, 2003
    I just cannot get this to work. It seems like I'm doing everything correctly, but it just isn't working. I hooked my Linksys B router back up with the Netgear game adapter, and it works like a charm. I guess I will give up on G for now and just be glad I have something that works. Thanks much for your help!
     
  19. ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    Ugh, that sucks. Try the Belkin router (7230-4) Buy 2 on two receipts from CompUSA (silly one rebate per household rule), or get one at Circuit Ciyt (pricematch?). For $40 you can hook up 4 deices at each end.

    Or buy the 'turbo' version (7231-4, I think?) which also (I believe) supportss this bridged AP mode.
     
  20. yakima2k

    yakima2k New Member

    12
    0
    Jan 17, 2005
    Okay - update.

    D-Link guy was full of it. DSS 5+ switch works just fine. And I discovered that it works just fine behind my gaming adapter, too. No need for the extra bridge. I put the switch behind the adapter and connected my PS2 and Tivo to the switch - the PS2 had no problem connecting to the network again.

    My problem now is the Tivo. I can't seem to get the settings configured correctly. It tries to negotiate with the router and then tells me "the gateway could not be located".

    I've got a DSL connection using PPPoE. ipcofig says my gateway address is 192.168.0.1. my router (DI-624) says that's my LAN ip addy but my WAN ip is different. But I've tried both in the TIVO and none of them will find the gateway. Suggestions?

    UPDATE - D-link Gaming Adapter does not work with Tivo! - You can put multiple consoles behind a DSS-5+ switch but you WILL need a proper bridge to use Tivo behind the switch.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements