UK TiVo Bricking Scandal discussed on TWiT

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by Jo.Cassady, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Feb 22, 2011 #41 of 185
    Nimbus

    Nimbus New Member

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    May 29, 2004
    UK, Oxon

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    Are we sure that they are actually going to stop updating their servers ?

    Or actually.. are they just turning off their dialup line ?

    I mean, tivo never actually released a S1 with an ethernet connection, thats something the community did..

    So in theory, no UK S1 tivos should be getting the data via the net anyway ?

    It might be, that the EPG data for the new virgin boxes comes from the same servers, and from the 1st June, we might still be able to get the data from there... I mean, it must be generated for Virgin ?

    Or am I being very optimistic... !!!

    Well.. I can hope.....
     
  2. Feb 22, 2011 #42 of 185
    GWR71

    GWR71 New Member

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    Feb 22, 2011
    Like Jo, you're comparing apples and oranges, which is a pointless exercise. The installed US TiVo user base was 2.79 million in October 2009 (down from a 2006 peak of over 6 million); Thomson supposedly sold 35,000 boxes in the UK in total, and it wouldn't surprise me if less than a quarter were still in use.

    Just FWIW, Sky+ HD had 3.5 million subscribers as of December 2010.

    The numbers speak for themselves, don't they? Given TiVo's utter marginalisation in the UK (let's be honest, most people have never heard of it and hadn't heard of it even when Thomson was still making them), we really were lucky that they didn't just wash their hands of the service in 2003, as they had every legal right to do.
     
  3. Feb 22, 2011 #43 of 185
    Jo.Cassady

    Jo.Cassady New Member

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    Jul 21, 2002
    They didn't leave the UK in 2003, they didn't file for administration, they still have to fulfill their obligation to provide EPG data for the lifetime of my Thomson Scenium box.
     
  4. Feb 22, 2011 #44 of 185
    Jo.Cassady

    Jo.Cassady New Member

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    Jul 21, 2002

    Hey, it's just lively debate at this point. Welcome to the thread.

    Your New Zealand earthquake straw man is silly and isn't helping. At any given point, there are always tragedies taking place. It doesn't excuse the greed and mendacity of TiVo.

    Please, try to convince me using logic, not silly rhetoric. I am listening.

    There's no doubt (in my mind) that they're trying to pull a fast one.
     
  5. Feb 22, 2011 #45 of 185
    sad_tivo_man

    sad_tivo_man New Member

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    Apr 27, 2003

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    Actually that has been done pretty effectively already by New Labour
     
  6. Feb 22, 2011 #46 of 185
    Jo.Cassady

    Jo.Cassady New Member

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    Jul 21, 2002
    I just skip over his walls of text. :D
     
  7. Feb 22, 2011 #47 of 185
    Teepee

    Teepee New Member

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    Aug 24, 2004
    U.K. Tivos came onto the market at a cost of nearly £600 for a fully subbed unit. At that time a V.H.S. recorder could be purchased for £100 and expected to last for ten years. With such a hefty premium for the Tivo features I would say that a fifty year lifetime would not be at all unreasonable.
     
  8. Feb 22, 2011 #48 of 185
    Karnak

    Karnak 'Local'

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    Jan 13, 2003
    Fifty year lifetime?!

    Can you name a piece of consumer electronics from fifty years ago you expect is still working/supported by it's manufacturer today?
     
  9. Feb 22, 2011 #49 of 185
    Major dude

    Major dude Member

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    Oct 28, 2002
    I was about to ask about how TiVo treats USA series 1 users as I think this is the most significant point about this issue.

    I have always thought American consumers in general get a better deal usually because they are more willing to complain. At the end of the day we are all TiVo consumers and we should all be treated the same as our American counterparts.

    In the meantime I see no harm in complaining if only so that in future TiVo and VM think twice and do not take their UK customers for granted.

    As far as the symantic arguement is concerned about 'scandalous behaviour' this is totally subjective and depends on what you personally think is important in life. People talk usually about a scandal in relation to the royal family and yet in the words of a Bishop uttered recently I could not care less about 'old big ears and the China Doll' and have no expectation that they should or would behave better or worse than anybody else along with MPs, footballers, etc..

    This is a TiVo Community Forum and an appropriate place to air and share your grievances about TiVo, especially as there is a chance it is being monitored by Virgin Media.

    In conclusion perhaps because we have such high regard for TiVo as a product and care about it we do have misplaced expectations on how TiVo and VM as retail companies should behave toward their customers and therefore we do think 'scandalous' is an approriate term.
     
  10. Feb 22, 2011 #50 of 185
    irrelevant

    irrelevant Member

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    Mar 19, 2002
    Salford, UK
    GPO 700 series telephones? They were introduced in about 1959.

    I dunno about it being supported, but I think my dad still has the one in his study that was installed back in about 1970..
     
  11. Feb 22, 2011 #51 of 185
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

    9,015
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    Feb 11, 2002
    Knaresboroug...
    And, as has been previously explained on a number of occasions, it is NOT the lifetime of the box but of the EPG service; which will die on June 1.
    Well yeah. It's easier to ignore the truth than to admit you're just completely and utterly wrong; especially after so many pages of me and other people telling you the same thing :rolleyes:
     
  12. Feb 22, 2011 #52 of 185
    worm

    worm Damn The Man!

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    Feb 10, 2005
    Coldstream...
    To be fair - from the Service agreement:

     
  13. Feb 22, 2011 #53 of 185
    mikerr

    mikerr TiVoCentral.co.uk

    2,599
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    Jun 2, 2005
    Lancashire, UK
    Deserves quoting for the absurdity. :eek: :rolleyes:

    I'm pleasantly amazed it has lasted so long - and I probably stand to lose a lot more financially than most of you!
     
  14. Feb 22, 2011 #54 of 185
    GWR71

    GWR71 New Member

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    Feb 22, 2011
    We *are* using logic, Jo, but your obvious passion for TiVo seems to be blinding you to the basic realities we are pointing out.

    When TiVo abandoned the UK as a growth market in 2003 (and they had no alternative - Thomson stopped making the boxes in 2002 and no other manufacturer showed any interest in licensing TiVo software), the logical business step for them to take would have been to cut the service at the same time.

    They didn't, even though they were fully legally entitled to do so (as they still are, hence the cessation of the service in June, which does not break any conditions of the contract between them and you, no matter what you may prefer to think). They continued supporting what was, effectively, a total dead-end market for them for the next 8 years. Is that the work of a heartless corporation that cares more about the bottom line than its customers?

    Of course, that couldn't last forever. Given the tiny size of the UK S1 user base, the UK S1 guide data service has continued far longer than any of us could reasonably have expected. I genuinely can't comprehend how you can apparently feel hard done by.
     
  15. Feb 22, 2011 #55 of 185
    Karnak

    Karnak 'Local'

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    Jan 13, 2003
    I kind of feel like I want to chime in here and say sensible things about how much service we've had and how my TiVo was the best bargain I've ever bought, etc etc.... but I get the impression others have done that ad-infinitum and it wouldn't be worth my while?..
     
  16. Feb 22, 2011 #56 of 185
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Feb 11, 2002
    Knaresboroug...
    ^ Indeed. Complete waste of time on some people. Most of us would agree with you though :)
     
  17. Feb 22, 2011 #57 of 185
    Trinitron

    Trinitron New Member

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    Jan 20, 2003
    North West
    One thing we don't know are the terms under which those exclusive rights were negotiated. It's seems clear that TiVo got VM to offer boxes to current S1 subscribers first; we can also suppose that the Sky contract to handle CS queries ran out or was terminated towards the end of 2010. So the remaining question is how much influence VM have had in ending the S1 service.
     
  18. Feb 22, 2011 #58 of 185
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Dec 25, 2006
    They did leave the UK in 2003, they did wind up their UK company, and they will provide free EPG data for your box for so long as the service exists (which is all that was ever promised).
     
  19. Feb 22, 2011 #59 of 185
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Dec 25, 2006
    Nope, try using a pulse dial telephone today!
     
  20. Feb 22, 2011 #60 of 185
    sbutton

    sbutton New Member

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    Nov 11, 2006
    All this tit-for-tat bickering is all very well, but seriously what are our options here. I think I've got the following options :-


    1) Leave it as it is, and just use it for pause / rewind. Get everything else from iPlayer/PS3. (and "other sources" - PS3 media server)
    2) Upgrade to a new Virgin Tivo http://tivo.virginmedia.com/tivoupgrade (I've already registered an interest) But I don't get Virgin cable where I live, so not much use?
    3) Hack the current TiVo so it gets its EPG from the internet. Would require purchase of a network card, which USED to be expensive. Are they still expensive? Can you ONLY use the TiVo EPG, or can it get it from somewhere else?
    4) Get a Sky+ box (can probably get a cheap one from eBay ,as people upgrade to Sky+ HD and 3D)

    I'm still using my SD CRT telly and quite happy with it thank-you-very-much. Also, I only get the free channels on my current SKy box as I'm trying to save money this year. (and not impressed with the pay channels anyway)

    Any suggestions on number 3) ?
     

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