UK TiVo Bricking Scandal discussed on TWiT

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by Jo.Cassady, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Feb 21, 2011 #21 of 185
    Raisltin Majere

    Raisltin Majere The 96 YNWA

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    They've been absent from this country for 5 or 6 years. We should be grateful they kept Tribune feeing us the data. I obviously don't have figures, but I'd be surprised if the monthly subscribers made that worthwhile.

    Lifetimers paid for the lifetime of the service. That's now ending.

    Very, very sad. I'm as gutted as anyone, but TiVo have acted honourably.
     
  2. Feb 21, 2011 #22 of 185
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
    Er... no it's not.

    We could go on like this for days :p

    Well that's one way of putting it. There is a more realistic and sensible way. :)

    Their reputation, at least amongst people with some common sense, will remain entirely intact.

    And the "lifetime" of the EPG data covered by your payment, ends (with more than 100 days notice) on June 1, 2011. End of story.

    The truth is as told by Raisltin Majere, above.
     
  3. Feb 21, 2011 #23 of 185
    Jo.Cassady

    Jo.Cassady New Member

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    Were their financial planning people just really incompetent? Suppose, for the sake of argument, they got 30,000 paying £200 up front. That's £6 million + interest.

    Shouldn't they have spent the first few million £ on infrastructure?

    With all due respect, have you lived in the USA? TiVo continue to be a thriving enterprise. They neglected the UK market.
     
  4. Feb 21, 2011 #24 of 185
    Jo.Cassady

    Jo.Cassady New Member

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    how do I turn the ignore thing on? I don't read his walls of text, but would be good to make it disappear.
     
  5. Feb 21, 2011 #25 of 185
    Raisltin Majere

    Raisltin Majere The 96 YNWA

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    What if for the sake of argument they only had one?

    What if for the sake of argument they had a partner in the UK that royally screwed them over?
     
  6. Feb 21, 2011 #26 of 185
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    TiVo UK closed in, I think, 2003. May have been 2002.
     
  7. Feb 21, 2011 #27 of 185
    Raisltin Majere

    Raisltin Majere The 96 YNWA

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    I had typed 'best part of ten years' but that seemed an awfully long time.
     
  8. Feb 21, 2011 #28 of 185
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Actually I don't think TiVo have ever posted a profit, and their losses in the last year or two have been going through the roof. In their last financial statement they lost $21m in the previous three months alone.

    TiVo have done nothing wrong here; they kept the service going well beyond what anyone back in 2002/3 when they pulled out of the UK expected them to. The "lifetime" thing is a complete red herring based on a misunderstanding of what it meant (it meant no more payments for the lifetime of the box, not that the service would continue for ever and ever).

    Your anger is misplaced.
     
  9. Feb 21, 2011 #29 of 185
    Jo.Cassady

    Jo.Cassady New Member

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    Sure, i get that! My box is still very much alive. (I didn't think lifetime referred to my lifetime, LOL)

    Perhaps my anger is misplaced; it's good to engage in sensible discussion, I'm willing to hear everyone's views. (i am yet to be convinced that my anger is misplaced, though)

    --
    When they "pulled out" in 2003, they were still happy to take our money.
    --
    They posted losses? Perhaps TiVo should squander less money on marketing? (or whatever they are doing with that money)
    --
    Why don't they open source the EPG thing? (They should do that, at the very least). They simply want to extract as much money as possible.
     
  10. Feb 21, 2011 #30 of 185
    Raisltin Majere

    Raisltin Majere The 96 YNWA

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    The 'EPG thing' is TiVo. That's what we paid for - rich metadata
     
  11. Feb 21, 2011 #31 of 185
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    I doesn't mean the service will continue for the lifetime of the box either; it means that there will be no payments for the lifetime of the box.



    And we were happy to receive the service in return.

    TiVo has never made money; the costs of development have always been higher than revenues. One day Apple will buy them with some small change found down the back of Stev Job's sofa, as thay are the only tech company to come close to apple's underastnading of user experience.
    --
    The sale of "the EPG thing" is one of TiVo's main revenue streams, alongside software licensing like the VM deal.

    It HAS been reverse engineered, and that's being worked on right now for the UK, to provide an alternative when TiVo stops.
     
  12. Feb 22, 2011 #32 of 185
    GWR71

    GWR71 New Member

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    You're comparing apples and oranges, Jo.

    In the US, TiVo was pretty much the only PVR game in town long enough for the concept to take root and gain mainstream acceptance. In the UK, TiVo only had a very short period on the market before Sky+ came along and wiped out a huge chunk of its potential customer base.

    TiVo had no power to prevent Thomson dropping the UK S1 boxes. Similarly, it had no power to force any other manufacturer to start making them. So to suggest that they "neglected the UK market" is to fundamentally misunderstand the situation. TiVo could only enter the UK market when invited by partners who wanted TiVo software in their PVR boxes, and until Virgin Media came along, nobody did.

    So Jo, would you have preferred that TiVo cancelled their UK guide data service in 2003 (as many of us feared they would), rather than keep it running to support a tiny and dwindling user base for almost another decade?

    If I still had a TiVo, I would find it impossible to feel deceived or cheated. On the contrary, I would feel profoundly fortunate that TiVo had treated me so well by continuing to provide a service for so many years after it could (and the hard business case would be that it should) have been shut down.
     
  13. Feb 22, 2011 #33 of 185
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
    That would be "sensible discussion, as long as you don't disagree with me" then, yes? Otherwise you would not be wanting to "ignore" me. It's also interesting that I am the only one you want to ignore when there are other people putting forward the same POV as I am. (Though they are possible expressiing it better :))

    Perhaps I should 'ignore' you, as you have already demonstrated you actually know nothing about Tivo; both the company and its service. So why should anyone take you seriously? But I wouldn't do that; just because I don't agree with you and I don't mind if someone disagrees with my POV.
     
  14. Feb 22, 2011 #34 of 185
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Carl, ask yourself why you are annoying so many people at the moment. It's not WHAT you're saying, it's HOW you're saying it.

    A smiley does not excuse all statements.
     
  15. Feb 22, 2011 #35 of 185
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
    I stand by everything I have said. Jo's reaction is OTT; especially given that it is based on zero knowledge of the actual company she it out to ruin by deformation.
     
  16. Feb 22, 2011 #36 of 185
    mrparis

    mrparis New Member

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    I must admit I watched the re-run of the TWIT episode and got to admire Tom Merritt for sticking up for us UK Tivo's re the LifeTime sub. Nate Lanxon is a bit of a joke, to be honest, can't believe he hadn't heard of Tivo in the UK.

    I am one of those with 2 lifetime boxes, both still working on a daily basis. I'll be sad come 1st June as I'll miss the service. Freeview+ or Freesat+ (or whatever it's called) just doesn't have the same reliability or use-ability to be honest. Still gutted it's going and feel a bit like a kick in the stones that they're dumping their Series 1 customers.

    Who knows, maybe they'll bring us back into the fold and re-establish their services :)
     
  17. Feb 22, 2011 #37 of 185
    ramtops

    ramtops New Member

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    Oh, don't be so bloody ridiculous. People are being bombed by airplanes in Libya, people are dying in an earthquake in New Zealand, the Tories are dismantling our society.

    It's just a television recorder/service - get a grip.

    [dons flak jacket]
     
  18. Feb 22, 2011 #38 of 185
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
    ^ See. I'm not the only one who believe Jo is being OTT. The examples give above are scandals. Tivo pulling its S1 EPG is not.

    But I'm the only one getting flak for it :confused: Can I borrow your jacket, ramtops? ;)
     
  19. Feb 22, 2011 #39 of 185
    healeydave

    healeydave from tivoland.com

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    I'm not quite sure about the idea that tivo continuing to provide series 1 data was some sort of cost burden so significant that we had our due's and should be grateful for what we got.

    Consider:
    1. Tivo will continue to pay Tribune for guide data to supply its other services.
    2. Tivo will not risk annoying their USA series 1, 2 & 3 user base with the same treatment but its ok to cut off the UK?
    3. Tivo's EPG servers are based in the USA and are going nowhere to continue providing data.
    4. The only cost burden to Tivo was the continued running of the Internet dial-up networking point of presence and the freefone number. I think given the choice of loss of service or changing the number to a regular dial-up number would have been acceptable to most UK S1 users.


    Make no mistake, there is only one reason Tivo chose to cut off S1 data now!
     
  20. Feb 22, 2011 #40 of 185
    alek

    alek New Member

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    Because Virgin Media has exclusive rights to Tivo in the UK. Right!


    Alek
     

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