TV Shows "expiring" and deleting automatically

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by lcualoping, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. lcualoping

    lcualoping New Member

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    Nov 22, 2011
    I wonder if anyone has noticed this on a TiVo Premiere lately. I recently went on a 2 week vacation and made sure that all the shows on the Now Playing list were watched and deleted. I did not delete them from the Recently Deleted folder. When I got back from my vacation, the TiVo was about 55% full and had about 29 or so shows saved in the Now Playing list. I did notice that some shows had episodes missing, and I checked the Recording History and found out the following shows were all deleted automatically on the night of November 21st:

    Fringe episode from 11/18
    The Walking Dead episode from 11/20
    Hawaii Five-0 episode from 11/21

    The Season Passes of these shows were set to "Keep Until I Delete" and there are earlier recorded shows that are still in the Now Playing list. The Recording History page says that the shows were indeed deleted because they had "expired". The space used to record them was used to record other programs and so they cannot be recovered from the Recently Deleted folder. This is really disconcerting because the TiVo's System Information page reports it still had 20+ hours of HD content capacity remaining. The Hawaii Five-0 episode was literally only on the TiVo for less than 2 hours before it was automatically deleted. Any ideas?
     
  2. WhiskeyTango

    WhiskeyTango New Member

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    Is it possible you had some sort of problem with the cable over the last few days? If there is no signal, when the attempted recording is finished, it just disappears. That would explain why 3 recent shows are all missing and yet don't show up in the RD folder.
     
  3. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    Were you within your Keep At Most limits on the Season Passes? That might not explain anything anyway, because if you hit the Keep At Most limit on a Keep Until I Delete SP I think it just stops recording new episodes. I can't imagine how anything (erroneous) in the guide data could cause such a problem. Maybe you've found a new bug.
     
  4. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    That could explain why the episodes were missing, but it wouldn't explain why the TiVo said they were deleted, especially the Hawaii Five-0 episode after two hours. If there was no signal there would be a message to that effect in the recording history, not a message saying that the episodes had been deleted.
     
  5. lcualoping

    lcualoping New Member

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    I seriously doubt there was a cable outage, but I haven't watched anything yet so I can't be sure. Luckily the episode of Fringe auto-transferred to my PC when I powered it up on Sunday, the 20th. I had similar issues before with episodes being deleted automatically so I set all the Season Passes to Keep Until I Delete, and they're all set to record 5 first-run episodes.
     
  6. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    So if you reach 5 episodes on any particular season pass you want it to stop recording that season pass? I tend to have weekly shows set to keep at least 10 episodes and daily shows set to keep 25 episodes. And I don't use Keep Until I Delete, since in the (I hope unlikely) event that it hits the Keep At Least limit I would prefer to lose the oldest episode rather than skip the newest.
     
  7. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

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    I believe that the capacity measure is only indicating shows on the disk. The TiVo may delete shows as it schedules new ones to make sure there is adequate space. I believe that can give the appearance of an empty drive while it has, in fact, allocated space already for shows ready to record.

    KUID has given me headaches in how it will not record new content, plus I often prefer to let shows stack up to keep storylines straight and 5 shows may not cut it for this behavior.

    To avoid all this, I would upgrade to a bigger drive. While drives are more than they used to be, it is an otherwise free upgrade with just a little effort. I never use KUID, let all shows record up to 25, and leave suggestions on.
     
  8. lcualoping

    lcualoping New Member

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    Nov 22, 2011
    We never intend on being out of town longer than 3 weeks so we figured 5 episodes per show would be fine as we would eventually get to watch them when we get back. Shouldn't KUID prevent the shows from being deleted in the first place? For shows like Fringe or The Walking Dead, it wouldn't make sense to watch a more recent episode since there will be gaps in the story. The Recording History of the episodes that were deleted stated that they were "expired", which also didn't make sense. What really bugs me was that Hawaii Five-0 was the most recent show to be recorded, yet it "expired" less than 2 hours after it was recorded and was permanently erased from the hard drive between last night and early this morning.
     
  9. WhiskeyTango

    WhiskeyTango New Member

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    Maybe the cable company applied the wrong copy protection flag? There is a 90 minute flag they put on PPV that automatically deletes the recording.
     
  10. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    This is why I never set keep until I delete. It will eventually cause SPs to stop recording. Setting it to keep the 5 most recent on all shows will ensure that it keeps the last 5 episodes and only delete more if there is no room. KUID is a nightmare and should never be used on a SP.
     
  11. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    It will still go past the limit as long as there is room. Most of my SPs are set for 5 episosdes, but many of them have 10 or 20 shows listed because I still have plenty of storage space left. I would never use KUID for any season pass. I would only apply that to a specific show after it was recorded and that is a rare thing for me.
     
  12. morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    That would be my guess. I'm pretty sure programs deleted to make room for other recordings don't list the deleted reason as "expired". My guess is that the cable company wrongly flagged the "expired" recordings with a CCI 0x03 bit which they are not supposed to do (by law).
     
  13. lcualoping

    lcualoping New Member

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    Nov 22, 2011
    You may be right on the copy protection flag. It would have been better if the TiVo would have been more clear about that rather than just saying that the program "expired". These aren't PPV events like a boxing match, just regular TV shows. Still having a show delete after only 2 hours is really bad.
     
  14. scandia101

    scandia101 Just the facts ma'am

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    Which Tivo model?
    This is the first I've ever heard of this happening and I'm not really believing it. Recording more episodes just because there is plenty of room is a complete disregard for the KAM setting which would make the KAM setting useless. It's more likely that your SP settings are not what you think they are.
    No Tivo I've ever owned has ignored the KAM setting and currently:
    My S2 (540) doesn't ignore the KAM setting.
    My TiVo HD doesn't ignore the KAM setting.
    My TiVo Premiere doesn't ignore the KAM setting.
     
  15. djwilso

    djwilso Member

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    That's an odd thing to suggest. I've been using Keep Until I Delete on my SPs for 10 years now.

    Never ran into an issue.
     
  16. Sk8Leigh

    Sk8Leigh New Member

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    I've just had this happen with my TiVo premiere twice recently, including today with X Factor from yesterday, which I was planning to keep permanently. :(

    On 11/16 it taped CSI. I know it was taping it. Then the next morning I noticed it wasn't there. In the recording history it said, " This recording was deleted because it had expired. The space was used for other recordings on Thu 11/17 at 12:09am." But I wasn't taping anything then, and I only had about 70% full on my drive.

    Now X Factor from last night, which is a big deal to me. I just noticed that my memory should have been in the 80% range, but it's below 80%, and I realized it deleted last night's episode. In the recording history, it says, "This recording was deleted because it had expired. The space was used for other recordings on Wed 11/23 at 4:30pm." I didn't tape anything at 4:30pm, either. I had taped something from 4-4:31, but that should be what it was talking about. It seems like a bug to me.

    Both of them were set up to keep until I delete, so this goes completely against that. And I still have plenty of room to tape everything on my schedule through next week.

    Luckily I did finally figure out what I'm going to do to move some of this stuff onto a hard drive and keep it that way, but it was too late to save that episode. :(

    It's not in recently deleted, so I guess there's nothing I can do to get it back?
     
  17. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    I completely disagree.. KUID and keep ALL episodes is the best solution.. But I admit I hypocritically don't have KUID set for all of my SPs.. only because then I get _nag_ screens, even with a big hard drive. (i.e. it THINKS it will be full, even though in reality I will have watched and deleted shows by then.)

    But in *THEORY*, KUID & all episodes would be the best.
     
  18. morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    Even with that set up, it will stop recording anything when it runs out of room.
     
  19. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    All my Premieres behave this way. For example I'll have first run only for NCIS and to keep five episodes. I have all the episodes of the season in "my Shows" list. My S3/TiVoHD boxes behaved this way too. My girlfriend has two of my old S3 boxes and they still do the same thing. The only time they will only keep the episode number I've selected is if there is not enough space including future recordings.
    This seems fine to me. Having more episodes kept has never been an issue.

    EDIT: I did try something out on one of my Premieres. I have an SP for Rescue Me, first run and keep ten episodes. There were over twenty listed in the "My Shows" list. I went to the season pass and changed it to Keep five episodes. When I went back to the "My Shows" list there were now only five episodes listed. Once I create a Season Pass, I rarely ever touch it again, and if I do it is to increase the keep until episodes.

    I was able to repeat this with another Premiere. I have a Covert Affairs SP to keep ten episodes and it had over fifteen. I changed it to five and the episodes dropped down to only five in the "My Shows" list.
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Call up your cable company and tell them they owe you recordings of those Fringe and 5-0 episodes.

    But first contact TiVo CS and confirm that expired means that it encountered a CCI bit setting that shouldn't have been there.

    But first read this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information

    then confirm with TiVo CS that the cable company is to blame.

    Then call the cable company and burn them a new one.
     

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