Tuning Adapters no longer mandated by FCC: WHAT IS TiVo DOING?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Teeps, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. Teeps

    Teeps Well-Known Member

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    Considering the FCC has abandoned 3rd party cable tv devices by removing the mandate that cable cos provide tuning adapters.

    What is tivo doing going forward to keep their business model, and our cable input only tivos, viable?
     
  2. dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    There's nothing for Tivo to do, this isn't something they can fix
    If a CableCo abandons CableCARDS and T/A's then we won't be able to use our hardware on the system and have to make personal choices on how to move forward.
     
  3. Teeps

    Teeps Well-Known Member

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    True tivo cannot fix existing units that require T/As to fully function.
    I just wonder if tivo can or will lobby the G'ment and/or FCC to reverse the decision.
    Guess only time will tell.
    Tivos that require tuning adapters, will eventually become paper weights; I wonder how many are in use?
     
  4. ManeJon

    ManeJon Active Member

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    What exactly do TA do? Are they truly specific cable company configured or could someone (TIVO) actually produce them to do their jobs?
     
  5. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Tivo won’t try to reverse it because it is irrelevant in today’s world.

    The world is slowly moving on from legacy linear tv packages and classic dvrs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  6. powrcow

    powrcow Active Member

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    Without a mandate, TiVo needs to work with the cable companies. They have worked with a few MSOs and released MSO-branded TiVos (RCN, etc). For consumer boxes (most of us), without the FCC mandate there's nothing we or TiVo can do.

    If there were a significant install base of consumer TiVos or TiVo (Xperia/Rovio?) had enough cash/clout, it could be beneficial to the MSOs to work with TiVo. But losing a few subscribers due to dropping CableCard support is a drop in the bucket of TV subscribers they're losing quarterly.

    Ultimately this is in the best interest of the content owners and streaming providers. Streaming delivery shifts viewing controls from the consumer to the content owner.
     
  7. Teeps

    Teeps Well-Known Member

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    Tuning adapters are needed with TiVo units if the cable provider has gone to SDV. The cable co DVRs have this communication protocol baked into their receivers.

    <wiki> Switched video or switched digital video (SDV), sometimes referred to as switched broadcast (SWB), is a telecommunications industry term for a network scheme for distributing digital video via a cable. <wiki>

    Switched video - Wikipedia
     
  8. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    There aren’t enough consumers out there that demand it. It’s a dwindling number that will continue to get smaller. And as more providers switch to IP TV it will get smaller still. The party is almost over for retail TiVos.
     
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  9. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    This is, and always has been, true not just for TA’s but also for CableCARD’s, i.e., for digital TiVo’s. It’s a slow slide that started more than ten years ago, i.e., ever since there have been TA’s and CableCARD’s. Paraphrasing an old saying from USSR workers: We pretend to work [mandate CableCARD and TA] and they pretend to pay us [support CableCARD and TA].
     
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  10. CommunityMember

    CommunityMember Active Member

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    Well, consumer CableCARD TiVos. It is possible that their consumer OTA DVR and the streaming dongle (which may or may not be considered a TiVo depending on your point of view) can be success, but it is a really hard market to compete in.
     
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  11. CommunityMember

    CommunityMember Active Member

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    TiVo once had the option to work with the cable companies on consumer owned devices, and they even did (successfully) for a period of time (Comcast/Cox on-demand, for example), but the choices the (new and improved) company made regarding IP (fees and litigation) ended that cooperation. It is now too late to go back. And while TiVo still introduces improvements, the days of substantial out-innovating the competition (and the cable company DVR) is over, so that the average consumer is no longer so passionate about the platform itself as they often have equivalent (or close enough) capabilities. Arguably, TiVo won the battle (for showing everyone what a DVR could be), and lost the war to better resourced competitors.

    CableCARD is not dead, but even if the mandate had not ended its days were likely numbered as linear QAM video delivery days were numbered (and were never available at all on many services). I would expect that cable companies not intensely hostile to the tech will continue to support CableCARD (as it is) until the companies other technology changes come into play (such as eventual moves to HSI high-split which will almost certainly put the final nail in the coffin if it is not already buried) simply because of corporate inertia.
     
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  12. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know the number breakdown between OTA and CC TiVo’s or if that is even available to the public but yes agree OTA could probably hang on longer if for no other reason than that TiVo has to continue to provide guide data to its smaller MSO customer boxes. And the streaming device may prove to be a player in the field.
     
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  13. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    Probably not many new cable customers asking for a cable card. I think the cable company would continue to support existing cable cards since they probably have their some of their own equipment using cable cards. It think if a customer replaces an existing Tivo, the cable company would probably repair the existing cable card. I don't think the cable companies are ready to fire the customer yet.
     
  14. mattyro7878

    mattyro7878 Well-Known Member

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    What has happened to this country where consumers are left for dead and big business reaps the....Oh, right.
     
  15. tommiet

    tommiet Active Member

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    Most of our TiVo devices will be dead before cable card support dies out. The issue may be the level of support we get or in most folks cases.. LACK OF SUPPORT.

    When my Bolt dies... It's going in the trash. Just found out this week that my cable company is now offering a cloud dvr for $5.00 a month. I'm 100% sure it won't be as robust as a TiVo, but sounds like a great option and I don't need any special hardware to use Spectrum's cloud DVR. Just a smart TV or most streaming devices.

    I also pay yearly and IF my Bolt last to June of 2021, I'll stop the service and try to sell my hardware on eBay. Then move to a cloud dvr.
     
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  16. warrenn

    warrenn Well-Known Member

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    If you don't have cable, Tivo is a great OTA DVR. I'm not sure if it's worth buying a retail Tivo just for OTA, but I love my OTA Bolt with lifetime.
    With OTA, you get all the major networks, PBS, some minor channels, a bunch of crap, etc. It's a useful way to fill in the gaps if you're streaming-only without services that carry the networks.
     
  17. CommunityMember

    CommunityMember Active Member

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    Your RF environment will vary. I lived for a quite some time in a location where OTA was, essentially, impossible unless you lived in the more expensive neighborhoods on the top of the hills and then still needed a fringe antenna due to the closest transmitters being quite some distance away. Those were the locations where CATV (where C initially stood for Community) were the only way to get TV. Those locations are not huge in terms of population numbers, but they should not be forgotten about, either.
     
  18. CommunityMember

    CommunityMember Active Member

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    Probably close to zero who do not already have them, as not only do the cable companies not advertise the offering, most consumers are not aware there are options. And, as is clear from the numbers, cable companies are moving from their legacy of primarily being a video content service to now being primarily an Internet service. Lots of new customers don't want video at all (they will choose their OTTs of their preference).
    The cable companies STBs are two way devices, typically using different communications and provisioning protocols, so while they are the same, they are also different, offering the potential for different paths and schedules moving forward at some future point.
     
  19. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    IIRC Cable co boxes actually have CableCARD’s embedded in them, but there are important differences:
    1. The cards are enabled for two-way communcation instead of just one-way as in TiVo cards.
    2. The cards are preconfigured, enabled, paired, i.e., properly installed at the “factory”.
    3. Cable Cos actually care if these cards work correctly while they just pretend to care about cards in TiVo’s, to keep the FCC off their back. In their defense, the cards (and tuning adapters) are a PITA nuisance forced on them to benefit their competitors and not them.
     
  20. powrcow

    powrcow Active Member

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    This is the biggest hurdle to getting a properly working Cable Card. I have sat and watched an installer flub the long alphanumeric string over the phone, complaining about sh** TiVos. Once self install was available, Cable Card pairing and activation was straightforward.
     

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