Tuning Adapter: YES! ...Now onto the CCI flag

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by skaggs, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. JWThiers

    JWThiers Smartypants

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    And that was my point that there is HARD work involved if the work is hard, even if the steps are easy to define and are known ahead of time, the task itself is difficult. Listing the steps to accomplish it is easy, but the actual work is (or can be) hard. For example, I work at NASA. I could sketch out a very simple flow diagram that explains the basic steps to assemble the solid rocket motors for a Space Shuttle Flight. The problem is the actual work is VERY difficult and relies on highly trained people to pick up a 180,000 lbs rocket segment and position it to within 0.025" lower it onto another 180,000 lbs segment and maintain rates of engagement less than 0.060" per second. and that's the easy part we have nice big cranes to do the lifting.
     
  2. berkshires

    berkshires Member

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    How about: the cable co. has the control over the flag by DEFAULT. Thus only in a contract negotiation can HBO try to get a particular arrangement with a cable co (or each of its individual areas.)

    Charging a slightly higher price of transfers would be a reasonable compromise. It would have to apply to future cable DVRs that might have the same ability.
     
  3. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    I’m fairly certain that anyone along the line is permitted to add the flag- so I don’t think HBO is prohibited from adding the flag…
     
  4. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    I’m at work so don’t have too much time to read up but quick look in the CFR’s finds this:

    So seems that Hbo is perfectly within their rights to add whatever CCI flags they want within the distribution system. (I guess the end link in the chain could maybe change the flag- but why would they? Wouldn’t it be far simpler for Hbo just to add a single sentence to each contract that says “don’t mess with any flags we happen to set” rather then needed to spell out what each channel might or might not get in a contract?

    also interesting:
    Seems IPTV is free to do whatever you want- I wonder if verizon gets away with all clear because they argue their fiber is the TVsame as cable modem or DSL?
     
  5. berkshires

    berkshires Member

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    Feb 22, 2007

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    I have no clue as to what you are quoting has to do with this.
     
  6. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    those are the regs about the CCI flags (or what flags a cable compnay is allowed to send to an end user)

    I thought you were trying to say that the default is the cable company(ie comcast) has control and the content producer (i.e. HBO) would have to get permission from them via contract to set the flag on their end. The way I read the regs is there is nothing stopping HBO from just putting the flags they want on their content and so there is no reason at all for comcast et al to be involved in setting flags- EVER.
     
  7. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Yet Time Warner sets them on every channel except locals.
     
  8. sinanju

    sinanju Active Member

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    Jan 3, 2005
    I believe the cable company has replaced the telco as the oppressive monopoly. Remember Ernestine, the telephone operator of the old AT&T days? "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company."

    I know there aren't enough of us to matter, but it would be wonderful of CCI=0x00 became a competitive feature for FiOS.
     
  9. JWThiers

    JWThiers Smartypants

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    A competitive feature for Fios would be to just be available in more places. I'd jump for the internet service alone, throw in Cable at a discount I'm there. I'd still be leery of throwing in telephone but that's more because of I don't like having all my eggs in one basket than anything else. <sigh> Fios.
     
  10. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ


    exactly my questions- why is cable getting involved at all...
     
  11. berkshires

    berkshires Member

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    Feb 22, 2007
    Maybe those are some of the regs? The reason is the cable co has the right to change it to whatever it wants regardless of what the channel sends (assuming a flag is even sent as part of the content delivered to the cable co.)
     
  12. berkshires

    berkshires Member

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    What happens when cable cos or FIOS or any other decides to offer MRV or streaming in larger numbers on their DVRs...
     
  13. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ

    oh- certainly there's about 5000 pages of regs- feel free to sift- laughing.

    But seriously- you are correct - the cable system is permitted to put on any falg it wants so long as it complies with the fcc regs (copy never only permitted for PPV or VOD, and broadcast channels must have no restrictions).

    But again back to my point- why wouldn't HBO set the flag on their side and then merely add a single simple generica clause in all their contracts that cable may not change the flag once HBO sets it. Seems a much cleaner system to me for all the parties involved. I dont understand HBO's reluctance to do that. Is it really that big a deal to buy 20 machines that add the CCI flag to the HBO upling center?

    and then WHY cable wants to be involved at all is another question. All they do is get liability for nothing in return. Sure it makes sense that time warner would bother to flag their corporate content (if their coporate folks were too stupid to add the flag at their end)- but why would time warner bother flagging rainbow media's content (which is owned by cablevision)? It makes no sense.
     
  14. DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    Richardson, TX
    I think fios already uses some form of MRV with their DVRs, which is why they flag everything as 0x00. The restrictive CCI byte would break their MRV's functionality.

    Aren't they using a DRM flag instead, which is something that Tivo ignores?

    Time-Warner's stone-age DVR doesn't do anything, so they punish the Tivo users with 0x02.

    TTYL
    David
     
  15. berkshires

    berkshires Member

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    Feb 22, 2007
    Contracts aren't usually changed until they expire.

    You are assuming the content is delivered with a flag setting. I don't know if that is even true or if the flag setting is only something that exists within the cable system equipment.

    Obviously the cable co's wanted the right; I doubt the regs happened by accident. Whatever the reasons, its a chip to bargain with and probably wasn't paid attention to enough by other interested parties when the whole thing was created.

    Since that is the way it is, right now it would be pointless for the channel to buy equipment to set the flag, if that were necessary technically.
     
  16. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Heres one for you....

    Time Warner owns Time Warner Cable, Warner Bros Studios AND HBO!

    You think that Time Warner Cable & HBO would have something going on. But they don't. Many TWC areas STILL DON'T have all the HBO channesl available.

    As far as the CCI bit goes. As one CSR put it once. They said they didn't want you recording off a show, then giving it to your freinds/relatives so they could watch it WITHOUT having to pay for cable!

    Ummm.... We can do that now anyways... albeit... Not in HD. Just use a DVD recorder or old VCR.

    TGC
     
  17. sinanju

    sinanju Active Member

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    Jan 3, 2005
    Yes... the old, "assume your customer is a criminal" approach.
     
  18. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    I can't speak for HBO, but as Mark Cuban (HDNET/HDNET Movies) once told me. He usually doesn't agree with or sign contracts with cable companies lasting more than 3 to 5 years. He said he did sign one with one cable company (He didn't say which one though) that was 6 years.

    Mark does have a TiVo. TWC here in Dallas has marked HDNET/HDNET movies with the Copy once CCI flag. He doesn't like it either, but like he said. There ISN'T anything in his contract that prevents TWC from using the Copy Once flag on his channels. He went on to say, but didn't offer a reason as to why, but that MOST cable co's don't want contractual obligations in the contracts PREVENTING them from setting the "Copy Protection" flag is they chose too.

    They don't mind contractual obligations that REQUIRE the copy protection flag. They just DON'T want contractual obligations PREVENTING the copy protection flag from being used.

    As to "WHY" cable co's want it this way? Mark Cuban didn't tell me. I don't know if he knows the real reason or not.

    TGC
     
  19. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    What the Cable Co's forget about now.. is the Slingbox. I have a couple of slingbox's I use. Along with a slingcatcher.

    Many times I have taken my slingcatcher over to a friends house who DOESN'T have cable so we could watch something. As well as to serveral relatives who don't have cable either.

    Many ways around the ole game we play

    TGC
     
  20. comprev

    comprev New Member

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    Oct 31, 2003
    It would take someone like TiVo to go to Cable Labs to get this done, but I'm wondering if it's even possible. Some of the services, such as Amazon, will let you download a video with DRM that will allow it to be view within 1 month and once you start viewing it, it can only be viewed for 24 hrs. It also can't be burned to a DVD.

    Would it be possible for TiVo to do this with transfers to other TiVos and computers? If so, could they talk Cable Labs into going for this type of protection?
     

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