Trying to figure out HDMI cables and splitters (2.0 and HDCP 2.2).

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by My Cape is a Recliner, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    I recently set up my TiVo Bolt+ and everything was great except for one program. NBA on FOX was coming in with horrible resolution (80s overused VHS tape kind of resolution). I have read they were showing that in 4K at 60FPS since 2017. All tuners work good, all channels work good, fox other than basketball works good. I am able to watch 4K movies through google and amazon through the tv apps. I have searched and read that my problem is almost 100% going to be my old HDMI cables. I have tried to figure out what the difference is, and which one I need. Samsung support was no help. This was posted in another thread:
    https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/4K-UHD-Resolution
    I have a:
    Samsung un55ju7500fxza tv, (2016 model 55" 4K UHD, 3D, 240hz refresh rate), that supports 4K @60FPS. It does not specifically say it supports HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2.
    I currently have it connected to the tv (through its only HDMI port a, MINI HDMI port) from a splitter that came with the TV, then HDMI from the TIVO. I bought my TiVo used, and did not get a hdmi cable with it.

    I am seeing 60hz, 120hz listed on the cables as 4k at 60hz, and not sure if that's the refresh rate, or if that's another rate I need to consider.
    Can someone help me understand what HDMI/HDCP cable I need, or what settings it needs to have?
    Do I also need a new splitter that is going to be of higher quality? Thank you.





    video codecs.PNG



    resolution.PNG
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  2. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    If you go to the account and system information screen, the HDMI status line will tell you exactly what current HDCP version is enabled for the TiVo output. Your TV specification sheet will tell you what HDCP version it supports (those details are available on the Samsung web site). If these two numbers are the same, then your existing cables are fine. And obviously, if the TiVo says it is using HDCP 2.2 at this time, then it makes no difference at all what the Samsung specs are.

    Furthermore, your TV does need to have UHD enabled in the system setup screen to use UHD. I do not remember for sure, but I do not think that was the default for my Samsung 4K UHD TV. However, I strongly doubt that would have anything at all to do with such a huge resolution issue that you describe, especially if it is on only one single program.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  3. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    (TiVo) HDMI status HDCP 2.2 enabled.



    The only thing I can find from the manual is:

    Connecting with an HDMI (ARC) cable
    ARC (Audio Return Channel) lets the TV output digital sound to an audio device and input digital sound from the same audio device through one HDMI cable. ARC is only available through the HDMI (ARC) port and only when the TV is connected to an ARC-enabled AV receiver.
    Connect an HDMI cable to the HDMI (ARC) input connection of the TV and the ARC-enabled HDMI output connection of the device as shown in the image below.
     
  4. mattyro7878

    mattyro7878 Well-Known Member

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    First if all if you are getting a picture from TiVo you have no hdcp issues. If the handshake between your source and your TV is deemed to pass hdcp protocols you will get a picture. If not you will get a message. HDMI 2.0 is not used at all yet. It is about high speed Ethernet in the HDMI cable. Not an issue for quite a while. Unless you have an 8k or 10k tv. ( Yes I said 10k)
     
  5. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    Samsung Announces Industry-First HDMI 2.0a Capability for 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs



    HDMI 1.4 introduced the kind of bandwidth required to deliver 4K video, but HDMI 2.0 can dole out 4K video without compromise, at 50 and 60 frames per second. In HDMI 1.4, the rate of 4K was limited to 24 frames per second.
    HDMI 2.0 vs 1.4: What's the difference? | Trusted Reviews
     
  6. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    I do not know why this thread is continuing. You started out asking about what you needed to get HDCP 2.2. In post #3, you verified that you already have an HDCP 2.2 connection, proving you do not need to do anything different. That "enabled" status in System Information does not mean it is just turned on, it means that is actually what is being used at that time; therefore, all the cables and connected hardware must be working fine (for HDMI/HDCP issues that would block any HD output).

    The TV told the TiVo that it does not think you are a thief, so the TiVo will put out the best picture quality it can with the selected output resolution and the source signal.

    Whatever issue you think you are having, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the TiVo using HDCP 2.2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  7. MassMan

    MassMan Member

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    No such thing as 240 refresh rate. You have 120. Samsung's motion rate is always listed as double the native refresh rate.
     
  8. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    I started out asking for an understanding of what the difference was, and what I needed. You were helpful to show me that the TiVo sees HDCP 2.2.

    My tv does not show either but with continued searching, I found that Samsung was using HDMI 2.0 for my model of tv. My guess is they just didn't label it that way at first (or maybe not at all), as they include a splitter and didn't need think they needed to. With further reading, I found that it is most likely my splitter that is blocking out the HDCP 2.2 handshake with the tv, otherwise it does have one, but I can't find where. Either way I feel comfortable making the $8 gamble to buy a new HDMI cable that I KNOW is 2.0 compliant and giving it a try between the TiVo and the splitter to see if that clears it up. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  9. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    Motion Rate 240 (rate out)
    2015 UHD Smart TV (JU7500) | Owner Information & Support | Samsung US
    No, its not always listed as double the native rate (rate in). There are 60hz, 120hz and 240hz refresh rates (rate out). There is no such thing as 240 NATIVE RATE (rate in), it is either 60 or 120 (rate in). A motion rate of 60 Hz (rate out) is a native refresh of 60hz (rate in).
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  10. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    At the risk of continued repetition, I will still offer this comment one last time:

    There is no way that the TiVo System Information screen would be showing HDCP 2.2, if there was not already a fully compliant HDCP handshake between your TiVo and all connected hardware that confirmed to the TiVo that ALL hardware was providing totally secured connections to the Video output that is fully complied with the HDCP 2.2 standard.

    The whole purpose of HDCP, no matter what the version, is to shut off all HD video output if the connected display equipment does not provide positive confirmation that it is capable of stopping you from stealing their precious HD quality signal at the selected video output resolution. If the connected equipment is only operating at a lower HDCP version than the TiVo is capable of using, then the TiVo will limit the selection of it's HD output signal resolution to whatever is complaint with the received handshake. For example, my Bolt that is connected to a 15 year old Sony HD TV only negotiates an HDCP 1.x connection, but that is still just fine for a 1080p output, which is the highest resolution available on that TV.
     
  11. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    I just learned about this reading up around when starting this thread. The way I understand it is, the Tivo will either show HDCP 2.2 or nothing. HDCP 2.2 is not a scale of compliant just its name, so that's the first time I have heard of HDCP 1.*. That the only way to get around the HDCP 2.2 is to have a splitter that will negate it. There is no list or confirmation of which splitter will work with which equipment. You just have to give it a try and see if it will work if all components don't have HDCP 2.2 compliance. Also that, If there is no compliance, then the TV won't display what it needs to.

    Considering I am using a splitter, and don't have a way to check if the TV has the compliance; since I know the Tivo does have it, either the TV has it, or the splitter is blocking it. Either way, making sure I have a HDMI 2.0 cable from the TiVo to the splitter sounds like its the first, easiest, and cheapest way to see if that solves the problem.

    I wouldn't say this thread is done, I would say its waiting on me to change/upgrade that HDMI cable and see what happens. I will respond after I get the new cable and record another game to see how the resolution shows up, whether or not that fixed it or I need to come up with something else.
     
  12. mattyro7878

    mattyro7878 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a good $300 HDMI cable will help.
     
  13. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    Was this supposed to be funny, or were you just being childish because I posted a link showing you were at least 4 years behind technology with your answer?

     
  14. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    It displays the version with all software and hardware versions. My Roamio:
    TE3-SI-2.JPG
    HDCP 1.x is displayed.
     
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  15. CIR-Engineering

    CIR-Engineering Video Calibration & Electronics Repair Engineer

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    You may be experiencing an issue between 9GHz and 18GHz capable 4k. This will get technical...

    HDCP is not your issue as noted. Also, native broadcast rates for TV are always 60Hz (or more accurately 60/1.001 Hz). 120Hz and 240Hz are done by your TV and are multiples of the native scan rate being broadcast (59.94 x X). With streaming we also can have a native refresh rate of 24Hz (24/1.001 Hz).

    I can check when I have time and remember, but you may only be able to support 9GHz HDMI bandwidth with your TV. For 4K 60Hz this must be in digital component space YCbCr 4:2:0. I'm almost positive and think the TiVo supports 4:2:0 at 4K, but I am not 100% sure. The TiVo may only support YCbCr 4:4:4 which may require a higher bit rate than 9GHz depending on how many bits the 444 output is (8-bit, 10- bit, or 12- bit). Another possibility is that your TV is reporting the wrong video parameters (EDID data) to the TiVo.

    I am a little puzzled though... You say NBA on Fox. Are you talking about an OTA or cable broadcast? If so, I think it is most likely that the NBA is actually being broadcast at 720p as FOX uses 720p for their broadcasts.

    What I would suggest is going into your TiVo video settings and enable native resolutions for your stations. As an experiment, disable 4k and all other resolutions in your TiVo menu and only enable 1080p, 1080p 24Hz, 720p, and 480p (also disable auto). This will output native resolutions for all OTA and most cable stations (unless you happen to have one of the few cable stations that actually does 4K). With those settings, the TiVo will deinterlace 1080i to 1080p and 480i to 480p, but your TV will scale to its native resolution of 2160p (4K).

    Try the above and report back on your NBA FOX video quality.

    craigr
     
  16. CIR-Engineering

    CIR-Engineering Video Calibration & Electronics Repair Engineer

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    And as stated, if you want to run 4k out of the TiVo, you should enable (turn on) HDMI UHD Color in the TV menu. With it "Off" your TV only supports 4K 420 at 8-bit according to the table you posted.

    craigr
     
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  17. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    I appreciate that, but yes, it is a little over my head. I did go back through the owners manual pdf to see if I could fin anything else relating to that, but no luck. I found the article I was referring to. It states that 4K broadcasting for foxsports started in 2017, but that was for directv. I have no idea if that is also for me being on spectrum. I am certain I was watching games on fox in high resolution before I switched to Tivo. I have six HDMI cables here, and not sure if I am even using the same one.

    What's probably the issue is that I did not have all of my inputs turned to UHD ON. I also recently changed the cables through the splitter, and don't recall when compared to when I started having this issue. I turned them all on, but there are no games for the next two weeks to see if that fixed it. (So yes it could have been something really simple, I overlooked). I also noticed that even though my updates were set to automatic, I did not have the latest update from 2017. I even ran the check again, and it still reported it was up to date. I used a USB stick and now I have the latest update on the tv. I do think I noticed a better picture once the update was done. I could not find specific info on the update, just some "improvements".

    There is a TNF (/NFL) game on tonight I am going to record and see what that picture is like. I would think it should be the same as basketball. If the picture is not perfect, I am going to verify the video codec is okay, and try some of these other HDMI cables.

    One of the first things I did with my TiVo was change my video resolution settings. I turned AUTO off, and enabled the resolutions the tv says it will display, 4k60fps - 720p. That I already know didn't change anything.
     
  18. My Cape is a Recliner

    My Cape is a Recliner Member

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    I also did just find out by hitting the wrong button, that If you hit the arrow up button (with no banner currently displaying), it will show the resolution. Every one that I have checked so far is either 720P or 1080I. I will at least see what sports are being broadcast in. I know they are already working towards 8K cameras in the NFL.
     
  19. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    I've read the earlier posts and I don't see TE4 mentioned so I'm assuming you are using TE3. With TE3, the up arrow displays the current OUTPUT resolution. If you have more than one resolution checked, it can change resolutions. To see the INPUT resolution, just hit the Info button. With Fox channels, I still send 1080i, but I receive 720p. Sorry to interrupt.
     
  20. CIR-Engineering

    CIR-Engineering Video Calibration & Electronics Repair Engineer

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    Chicago USA...
    I am sure Spectrum is not showing in 4K. It’s going to be either 720p or 1080i.

    Spectrum may have an HD and SD channel number. Make sure you are watching on the HD channel and not the SD channel... my money is on this idea ;-)

    craigr
     

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