Transfers Prohibited by Copyright Holder!??

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by NaviGATR, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. Mar 2, 2008 #1 of 49
    NaviGATR

    NaviGATR New Member

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    Feb 2, 2002

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    Hey All,

    I'm not sure if you've experience this yet or if it's just my problem.

    This week I started noticing that pay channels like HBO and Starz have that ghostbuster symbol next to them when I browse them from other TiVos on the network.

    I tried to transfer Real Time with Bill Maher yesterday and so this new message... "Transfers Prohibited by Copyright Holder." I thought maybe my HD Tivo was mistaken into thinking it was an HD recording, so I recorded the show again on a different HBO channel. Same deal.

    Then I noticed it today on Headcase from Starz.

    Has anyone else seen this happening? I don't remember ever having a problem before. I've been recording The Wire upstairs for a while now and transferring it downstairs.

    Any thoughts????

    Thanx!

    Shawn
     
  2. Mar 2, 2008 #2 of 49
    lqaddict

    lqaddict New Member

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    That means that the content is copyright protected and cannot be copied/transfered - must be a recent addition for the shows you mentioned.
    I got sort of the same for the National Geographic's Ultimate Factories, but it is more deceiving - Tivo does not see it as a copy protected, but I can only transfer 160 MB (an opening minute with the commercials) and that's all.
     
  3. Mar 2, 2008 #3 of 49
    NaviGATR

    NaviGATR New Member

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    Has TiVo made any mention of this? It seems like a pretty big deal to just sneak out there and not address. And I can understand not allowing you to transfer to a PC in case people are worried about illegal copying... but from one TiVo to another in the same house?? That seems unnecessary and a terrible idea.

    What it's going to do is help me make my decision to move to DirecTV. The only thing keeping me from going over is my HD Tivo because it doesn't work with the satellite receivers. But if there is going to be restrictions on moving content around my network now, there's no reason to not just switch, sell the TiVo and use the DirecTV DVR.

    Thanx Tivo!
     
  4. Mar 2, 2008 #4 of 49
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    NaviGATR,

    This wasn't TiVo's decision. The CableLabs' DFAST licensing agreement -- which dictates the terms by which a manufacturer can use CableCards -- expressly prohibits copying of material flagged as "copy once" (CCI 0x02). The same applies to CableCard boxes from all manufacturers, not just TiVo.

    To allow remote viewing, TiVo would have to support streaming playback, without copying to disk. TiVo's current software cannot do that, and even the hardware may be incapable of doing so reliably. This is a feature I would expect on a future-generation TiVo, but even then, it will require more than wireless 802.11g. TiVo's 802.11g wireless adapter does not provide sufficient throughput to transfer some high-definition content in realtime, so 802.11n or a wired connection would be required.

    At this time, no DirecTV receivers support multi-room viewing of any kind. DirecTV is using essentially the same hardware as TiVo.
     
  5. Mar 2, 2008 #5 of 49
    TexasAg

    TexasAg New Member

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    As bkdtv said, you are jumping the gun blaming Tivo. You can complain to your cable company. Tivo is just following the requirements it is supposed to follow, and going to DTv won't let you do what you want to do anyway.
    __________________
    My personal opinions are just that. Don't rely on anything I say - I could be Bill Gates' pool boy.
     
  6. Mar 2, 2008 #6 of 49
    Gregor

    Gregor Wear Your Mask! TCF Club

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    Tivo has been very up-front about this, it's not their decision.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2008 #7 of 49
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    That's perfectly correct. It is also not TiVo who holds any responsibility for marking content as protected. That is the responsibility of your CATV provider at the behest of the copyright owner. It's also nothing new. That proviso was part and parcel of the original CableCard 1.0 spec which was penned years before TiVo came out with the Series 3.

    Many CATV providers simply mark all pay channels as copy protected rather than try to worry about which program is copy protected and which few are not.

    Note also the same law makes it illegal for your CATV provider to mark any content as protected on a local broadcast channel, no matter who owns the copyright of the program in question. HBO, Showtime, etc are all fair game, however.
     
  8. Mar 2, 2008 #8 of 49
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    Yep.

    Actually, I think the current TiVo hardware can. Certainly it can handle a file transfer at much greater speeds than any MPEG-2 video. It should also be able to decrypt the stream in pseudo - real time without any issues. There is however a bottleneck somewhere in the transport mechanism, but the bottleneck appears to be software related. That is for TTCB, however. MRV does not seem to suffer from the issue, so neither hardware nor software is an issue there. I've never had problems with a near real-time MRV transfer.

    And a good one, at that. Even a wired LAN could suffer problems if it is set up improperly or if the user's LAN becomes heavily loaded on an intervening link. Of course, I would think most users would only have a single switch to serve the entire house, and as long as the switch is a halfway decent one, it shouldn't be an issue. Nonetheless, HD video can gulp up a very significant fraction of the available bandwidth on a 100M connection, so network congestion issues are far from impossible to experience. If it's an 802.11n connection, it might be OK, but the signal had better be good and strong and interference free in both directions, and if someone else in the household starts a wireless PC - PC file transfer, watch out.
     
  9. Mar 2, 2008 #9 of 49
    BrianAZ

    BrianAZ Back on the wagon

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    I wish someone from Tivo would come out and say if they can implement UPNP AV on the Tivo (like a DLink DSM-520). I'd like this option to stream shows between Tivos as well as being able to play my media from my server.
     
  10. Icarus

    Icarus Member

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    Upcountry...
    I recorded Real Time on Friday on HBOP (non-HD) and the Tivo Desktop doesn't list any restrictions on it. It may be that your cable company flagged it in error. Some cable companies have been known to do that. On the other hand, my cable co may not have flagged it in error.

    I have plenty of other HBO programs that are copy protected, so it does seem like my cable company is passing the flags through to the tivo. Their selection of which programs are flagged and which ones aren't always seems rather arbitrary to me.

    I don't know what other people are seeing for HBO programs, but if you're seeing every program on HBO flagged, it seems like your cable co may be doing the wrong thing. The cable companies are just supposed to pass the flags through, not insert them if the programming isn't flagged in the first place.

    -David
     
  11. rocko

    rocko Cuckoo for TiVo

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    HBO is up to something for sure. Previous recordings of Entourage and Curb Your Enthusiasm used to transfer fine but now are copy protected. An odd thing is I have an unprotected episode of CYE that is newer than others that are protected. BTW, the title of the unprotected episode is "The TiVo Guy". :D

    For sure I don't see the sense in preventing TiVo to TiVo transfers but I'm guessing that the TTG mechanism is essentially the same as T2T so it prevents both.
     
  12. Icarus

    Icarus Member

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    Upcountry...
    That was a funny episode. :)

    -David
     
  13. kupe

    kupe Viva 'la Tivolution!

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    Hmmm, I just checked the latest HBO recordings on my Tivo HD and they transfer just fine to my S2- including CYE. The only shows that I can't transfer to the S2 are (of course) my HD shows. This is on Comcast Atlanta.

    Kupe
     
  14. m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Albany, NY
    "At the behest of the copyright owner." is the key phrase there.

    I believe TW and some other cable co's are doing this WITHOUT the request of the copyright holder.

    But unfortunately there appears to be no luck getting them to switch back.
     
  15. rocko

    rocko Cuckoo for TiVo

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    Northeast...
    Well Cablevision of NJ is the culprit, I'd imagine - as exhibited here (no comments about iCarly, please - I have a 12 year old :rolleyes:). :

    [​IMG]

    And what's even stranger is that "Entourage" is no longer protected - it was yesterday. I'm confused now.
     
  16. JoN8282

    JoN8282 New Member

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    I have cablevision in oakland of NJ and have no problems whatsoever with hbo - i just xfered the new George Carlin special in HD to my computer for safe keeping :)
     
  17. joec00l

    joec00l New Member

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    Jan 8, 2005
    Stewartstown...
    This sounds like more DRM bullsh** that we can continue to expect from media companies, not Tivo who is actually trying to help rather than hurt the viewer's ability to view content the way they want. You are absolutely right that it is a terrible idea and doesn't even benefit the businesses that mandate the limitation even though they are too stupid to realize it. Pissing off consumers is generally not good for business.

    Probably there is nothing you can do about it other than whine to HBO.
     
  18. Underclaw

    Underclaw New Member

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    Oct 27, 2006
    In my house I cannot figure out why the TivoHD upstairs will prevent transfer because of copyright (transfer from S3 downstairs) but the S3 can transfer THE SAME show if it was recorded on the TivoHD. It is like the S3 does not get the flags and allow all.
     
  19. gamo62

    gamo62 Member

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    Is there a LIST of channels and/or programs that should have the flag? All digitial channels, HD channels, or just PREMIUM HD channels. If there was a guideline, perhaps we would have more leverage against the cable companies. And if there are FCC rules regarding this issue, a posting of that as well might help.
     
  20. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

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    Mar 11, 2002
    Brookdale, CA
    Do you have cablecards in both boxes? If so, you may be getting analog on one box, but digital simulcast on the other. Or, that's still a possible explanation if they've assigned two different channel maps to the cards.
     

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