transfer then burn to DVD w/Pioneer TiVo DVD-R

Discussion in 'DVD TiVo Units (Archive)' started by ChromeAce, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    Has anyone been able to transfer a recording from one TiVo to another and the burn to DVD?

    I have a Pioneer 810 & a Pioneer 57. I transferred a show from the 810 to the 57 and tried to burn it to DVD. Got the "incompatible video formats" message. Re-read the manual, which clearly says I can't burn shows transferred from DVRs that aren't similar. Uhmm, wouldn't these 2 models qualify as being similar? They're both Pioneer TiVos with DVD burning.

    Anyway, I figured out the 57 is a huge waste of money considering I can get 3x the capacity with a custom unit from Weaknees... so I bought a 2nd 810 with 300 hours for the same price as my new 57 with 100 hours, which goes back to Ultimate Electronics.

    Any bets on whether a show transferred between two 810s will burn to DVD? Surely this isn't an issue of a copy protection flag. DirecTV isn't using those yet are they? And they shouldn't travel through an s.video signal, should it?

    I love the Pioneer TiVos with DVD burning, mostly due to the way it easily and simply burns your recordings onto a DVD, complete with TiVo menus and show data. Pop the DVD in your laptop and it's just like you have a TiVo with you on the plane.

    Sure, I wish I could edit the recordings, but for show archiving and portability, it's simple and effective.

    This HMO burn issue is a little disturbing, though.
     
  2. bedelman

    bedelman Call me Bob

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Crystal...
    If you can get the transfers to work between two 810's, you kind of can do heads and tails editing. The transfer can be set to start from a pause point (which will remove the head). You can also cancel a transfer in progress (which will remove the tail).

    I think you're the first person with two of the DVD-R units and HMO who has tried a transfer.
     
  3. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    Did you come up with that one on your own or did you read my recent post in DVD Recorders? ;)
     
  4. bedelman

    bedelman Call me Bob

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Crystal...
    I came up with that one several months ago (like November) when I thought it would be possible to do so with a Series 2. I figured out that as long as the program originated on a Pioneer, it should be possible. However, it was found out that you can't do this.

    Either the block on HMO transfers is universal (as you might find out) or it's not really a check of the format -- if it comes from a Series 2, it's no good -- even though it's encoded properly.
     
  5. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    I now own two Pioneer DVD-R TiVos, both 810s. Sadly, a show recorded on one and transferred to another is NOT burnable despite the fact the manual says it only can't be done on dissimilar models. A software patch could probably fix it if they want to.

    As for me, the ultimate combination remains:

    1. Hughes HDTV DirecTiVo

    for recording no-loss HD content & SD Dolby Digital content from satellite and antennae sources, quad tuner, Dolby Digital 5.1 -- not compatible with TiVo Home Media Option, thus no digital way to get shows out of it legally

    2. Pioneer 810 DVD-RW TiVo

    for quick & easy transfer of shows recorded off cable & satellite from its built-in TiVo onto a DVD complete with TiVo menus and program information... dubs way faster than realtime... however no editing available & shows transferred from another DVR cannot be burned... you can put your own content in the Now Playing list only via its composite input, no DV input... get the 300-hour version from weaknees.com... record shows on it that aren't in HD, aren't in Dolby Digital, and don't need to be edited prior to archiving to DVD... namely... THE SCREEN SAVERS... you can fit 6 episodes on 1 DVD to fill the time for your flight to Hawaii

    3. Pioneer 510 DVD-RW

    dub shows to it from the Hughes HD DirecTiVo which are worth archiving and editing, resulting in a high quality Dolby Digital 2.0 DVD which can be imported and further manipulated on a computer... use to archive shows onto DVD which have been transferred to the Pioneer DVD-RW TiVo via Home Media Option (since that unit can't burn those shows)... also use to import and edit DV camcorder footage for burning to DVD for projects which don't require comprehensive non-linear computer editing, like family vacations... since it doesn't have TiVo, don't use it to record any TV directly as there's no easy way to control a satellite box or set up automatic recordings (a show recorded manually thru its s.video input from a satellite box will look identical to a dub from a recording on the HD DirecTiVo as the content has been uncompressed once in both cases, unlike a show dubbed via s.video in from another TiVo which by then has been compressed/decompressed twice)... another option is to use a DV VCR to record shows to DV and then transfer them lossless via FireWire to this unit... you can get a Sony DHR1000 DV VCR on Ebay for $1000, but again, the signal is decompressed out of the satellite box, recompressed by DV, and recompressed by the DVD encoder, so probably not a good idea

    4. TiVo-branded stand-alone Series 2

    for TVs throught the rest of the house, all enabled with Home Media Option so that you can watch shows any of the others record, including the Pioneer DVD-RW TiVo... but NOT the Hughes HD DirecTiVo... but you wouldn't want to anyway because those shows are HD and/or Dolby Digital and you certainly don't have the cash for HD and/or 5.1 sound in every room... nor would you really want it necessarily (my bathroom Series 2 is great for Larry King but I wouldn't wanna watch Enterprise in there... too much echo)
     
  6. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    I called Pioneer about the burn to DVD after transfer issue. Their manual says 2 different things. In one place it says you can't burn after a transfer from an INCOMPATIBLE DVR. In another place it says you can't burn after transfer period. They referred me to TiVo.

    After being on hold with TiVo support for 45 minutes, and finally getting to a level 2 rep, he was very rude and argumentative about the wording of the TiVo error message you get when trying to burn a transferred show.

    He says you can't burn after transfer because it "would be illegal". I pointed out I can burn it on the original DVR and both are in the same house so what's the point? I also pointed out TiVo 2 Go will allow it on a PC. He said "that's different, it's a PC".

    Clearly this guy is an idiot. But even worse, he has serious attitude problems. He refused to acknowledge that the wording of this statement is confusing:

    THIS PROGRAM CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD BECAUSE IT WAS TRANSFERRED FROM A DVR WITH INCOMPATIBLE AUDIO AND VIDEO FORMATS.

    Since no show transferred can be burned, no matter what unit it is from, the message should say:

    THIS PROGRAM CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD BECAUSE IT WAS TRANSFERRED FROM ANOTHER DVR.

    By adding the fact that it can't be transferred because the DVR is INCOMPATIBLE implies there is one that IS compatible.

    Does anyone else understand this point but me?

    And wasn't it reasonable for me to assume that if I went out and bought a 2nd identical Pioneer 810 I should be able to burn transferred shows?

    So the agent still insisted the wording was "perfectly clear" and didn't see any problem with it and that the wording would not be changed, further pissing me off.

    I wasn't even asking for a refund on the 2nd unit. Just an admission that it was worded wrong! And all I got was attitude!
     
  7. bedelman

    bedelman Call me Bob

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Crystal...
    I agree completely with you. You didn't happen to catch the name of the agent did you? If you did, I'd suggest you send a PM to TiVoBill with this information.

    I'm involved with an outsourced tech support group here at work and there is absolutely no excuse for making a customer feel like you were made to feel.

    Also, it's a big deal that these programs cannot be burned in my opinion. It would appear that the software took the "easy" way out. Rather than really checking the format of the file, it's a generic block against anything which didn't originate on the unit itself.
     
  8. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    :D LOL :D
     
  9. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    Cody, case #1690541, level 2 support. Oh yeah, and he hung up on me.

    I've had about 15 different TiVos since 1999; I've gotta be one of their best customers.

    Oh, yeah, and how horrible is that automated voice recognition system? It's the true meaning of hell on my handset.
     
  10. bedelman

    bedelman Call me Bob

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Crystal...
    You should send this and some of the background in a PM to TiVoBill. If he's anything like me in dealing with interactions between the customer service folks and customers, he'd want to know about a case like this.
     
  11. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    I sent it to him. Thanks.

    In the meantime, I'm working on a way around the transfer then burn block on TiVo's HMO. I'm thinking of modifying a Roomba (robotic vaccuum cleaner) to get the burned disc out of the living room DVD-R TiVo and bringing it to the bedroom DVD-R TiVo. I'm hesitant, though, because Cody would accuse me of breaking the law.
     
  12. bedelman

    bedelman Call me Bob

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Crystal...
    I get around the limitation when coming from a Series 2 by using the Record from VCR/Camera option. Here's the way I have my Pioneer wired which allows me to feed the Pioneer using either VCR or the feed from a Series 2.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    Well, sure, if you want to exit the digital domain and put up with signal degradation! Unfortunately, what happens with that route is horrifying-- your sat receiver decompresses the video to s.video, your TiVo recompresses it & stores it on the hard drive, you transfer that over the network and play it back throught the composite out decompression, then the Pioneer burner recompresses the composite signal to put it on the hard drive, and finally the DVD burner software recompresses yet again to put it into MPEG2 format for burning on the DVD. Wow.
     
  14. bedelman

    bedelman Call me Bob

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Crystal...
    No satellite receiver here, but you're right about all the compression and stuff going on -- but it works for those cases where there's nothing else to be done. Some signal degradation is better than a blank screen.

    BTW -- Keep us posted if you hear anything back from TiVo
     
  15. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Hartford-...
    :D LOL :D
     
  16. dugbug

    dugbug New Member

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    Dec 29, 2003
    Interesting thread. Any updates sonyplanet?
     
  17. dirtypacman

    dirtypacman Coming and going

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    Feb 3, 2004
    MA
    I was hoping to add a second tivo to my bedroom and network with my current 810H. This i take it means I cannot take recorded shows off my bedroom tivo and burn to my 810H or am i missing something?
     
  18. ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    You're correct. Transferred shows are not burnable. TiVo needs to figure out this will cost them sales and customers who assume it will work, as the manual and the TiVo OS implies if you have 2 Pioneer TiVo burners.

    I suppose they're pretty scared about someone hacking the OS to allow transfer to other TiVos on the Internet, who could then burn DVDs. Overnight, TiVo could become the layman's Kazaa for pirating content, opening them up to MPAA lawsuits. This is all just guessing on my part.
     
  19. manielse

    manielse New Member

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    Mar 6, 2003
    Ok, I'm gonna reopen this topic because I wanted to respond to SonyPlanet's comments.

    1) HMO only allows you to transfer to other TiVo's registered on your account so the Kazaa idea should not be a major concern as long as that piece of HMO stays in tact.

    2) Tivo2Go will be out shortly which makes this topic even more frustrating to me. I can burn programs onto a PC but not another TiVo DVD-R? WTF?

    3) The TiVo can be hacked today to transfer programs through FTP to a computer and then be distributed over the Internet in unecrypted format. This of course is against TiVo's wishes but technically it can be done.

    So that leads me to once again ask why this can't be done in HMO? This is clearly not a format issue, it's a flaw/protection feature in HMO. There must be some type of Tag information being sent with the transfer that "copy protects" the show but is it really needed with Tivo2Go coming shortly?
     
  20. C Turner Joy

    C Turner Joy New Member

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    Jun 17, 2004
    Nod
    Well, I'm glad that someone finally posted on this topic. So glad that it caused me to register after lurking for more than a year.

    That said, I have been wondering what the issue was with not being able to copy from my Series 2 and then burn from my Pioneer. It was the sole reason that I bought my 810H. I assumed that since MVR allowed you to copy from one unit to another that you could then burn to disc. Well and truly bummed when I found that wasn't the case.

    I called Tivo. They punted me to Pioneer Tivo tech support. I got a hugely rude woman on the phone that acted like I was bothering her by asking something so obviously stupid as to why I couldn't do this. Frustrating.

    Then I sent an email to Tivo tech support. They were polite in their response. But not terribly helpful. I hope it doesn't violate any rules of etiquette if I post their reply here. Not that it is helpful, but here it is:

    "Currently, the burning of programs transferred from another TiVo DVR is not supported. Unfortunately, I do not have an estimated time as to when this action will be supported. However, I have submitted your inquiry as a TiVo feature enhancement request. We log all suggestions that we receive as TiVo feature enhancement requests, and submit them to our Research and Development Team for consideration. You may also use the link below to log any additional feature requests."

    I am no wiser to the reason why. I agree with most everyone else here in why this makes no sense, especially in light of Tivo2Go. Here's to hoping Tivo sees this from our point of view and sorts this out.
     

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