TNTHD Only allowed to keep the recording for 0 days? Anybody else seen this?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by gespears, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. gespears

    gespears Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Phoenix
    Sorry if this is a repeat guys and gals but I did a search and didn't turn up anything promising. When I record some HD programs, mostly on TNTHD (Firefly, Angel) it will only keep the recording for half an hour or so. It deletes it and says something about and agreement with the provider has limited the time I can keep the recording to 0 days. It also happened on a NASCAR race on ESPN2HD as well. Is this normal? Is everybody else having this issue? What good does it do to Tivo something if it's deleted a half hour later?

    Thanks for the help,

    Gary
     
  2. Dr_Diablo

    Dr_Diablo Dr_Diablo

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    Midwest
    It all depends on how many programs are already on the hard drive... Will usually report that the hard drive is full an can not save a certain program to disc... Took me 6 days to fill up the 160 Gig drive... Wanna get an external drive soon as the SATA port is enabled for the Tivo HD unit...
     
  3. pkscout

    pkscout Well-Known Member

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    Honolulu, HI
    This sounds like a problem with the way your cable company has set the copy protection flags on TNT-HD. The setting that causes that is on something called the CCI bit, and for what you described to happen, that bit has to be set to COPY NEVER (0x03). According to the FCC (FCC Regulation 76.1904 section a.1.ii) the CCI bit can only be set to COPY NEVER on premium, pay-per-view, and VOD content. For a channel like TNT-HD it should be set to either COPY ONCE (0x02) or COPY FREELY (0x00). This is a setting at the cable head end and has nothing to do with your TiVo.

    If you tune to TNT-HD, and then go to Messages & Settings -> Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, & Devices -> CableCARD Decoder -> select one of the cards -> CableCARD Menu -> CableCARD CP Screen you will see the CCI byte setting there. You have to make sure to tune the tuner (really both tuners) to a channel that would have protection (i.e. not the analog or clear QAM channels) to expect to see anything other than 0x00 (copy freely).
     
  4. drcos

    drcos HD where available

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    Jul 20, 2001
    Venice FL
    Even easier, go to Messages & Settings -> Account & System Information -> Diagnostics.
    Here you will see all kinds of wonderful information about both tuners.
    The lists include signal strength (for digital channels), CCI byte (the copy protection flag), even the type of card installed (S- or M-).
    One interesting thing for me is the 'Time Since OOB Tune Start' which I believe indicates how long the cablecard has been active, which is since the last power/boot cycle or in my case, card 'hiccup'.
    Here the card listed as "0" is in fact card #2, while "1" is card #1.

    As far as recordings lasting only a half hour, ??? Can you check the next time this happens and see what the CCI byte is set to? Also, is the deleted program in 'Recently deleted' or is it gone?
     
  5. cramer

    cramer Member

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    Raleigh,...
    If the CCI is 0x03, you shouldn't even be able to record it. But if it's a scheduled event, it might do it anyway.
     
  6. gespears

    gespears Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Phoenix
    Thanks guys for all the help. Do you think this bit can be getting scrambled by the Pixilation problems or be related in any way? The reason I ask is because it did let me record Firefly and keep it tonight but it didn't let me record the race on ESPN2HD or Timecop on UNVHD today. On Timecop, it wouldn't even let me rewind past its expiration. It just popped up a blue box on the bottom of the screen that said due to copy protection required by the (I don't remember exactly how it was worded) provider or whatever I could not view that far back. When it caught up to where it thought the time had not expired, it let me view from there.

    To answer your other question, when it's gone, it's really gone and nowhere to be found. I can't delete anything from my recently deleted folder, it says I don’t need to. But these show up there for just a few minutes and then are gone completely.

    I'll try to keep an eye on the CCI bit.

    Thanks again for the help and if nobody else is having these issues on these channels then it must be my head end. I wonder if Cox in Phoenix would have a clue if I called them about it. Do you think a defective cable card could be causing it?

    Gary
     
  7. pkscout

    pkscout Well-Known Member

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    Honolulu, HI
    The CCI byte can be set per channel, and the head-end can change it at any time. If Firefly is on a different channel than ESPN2HD or UHD then it doesn't really tell you much of anything. Pixelation should not scramble the CCI byte. This is a setting at your cable companies head-end that they have set (possibly incorrectly). Cox cable did that to me once when I lived in Vegas (they set everything to 0x03 except the local channels). It took me days of complaining and a discussion with the local franchise authority to get it fixed. Cox claimed it was an issue on my end and wanted to send a tech out (at my expense). Then two days before the scheduled call they left me a voice mail message saying they had found an issue at the head-end and fixed it. That issue? They had set the CCI byte incorrectly, exactly as I had been saying all along.
     
  8. drcos

    drcos HD where available

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    Jul 20, 2001
    Venice FL
    The CCI bytes are set per-channel at the head end and are supposed to be set per the content provider, within limitations set by the FCC. I believe 0x03 (copy never) is only to be used with pay per view at the discretion of the content provider.

    The CCI bytes are not chosen by the cable company - the cable company does not OWN the programming, they are merely the conduit for re-transmission and are responsible for maintaining a level of security (DRM) as required by the provider who OWNS the stream. In other words, if UHD does not require copy-once (0x02) to be set, Comcast cannot set 0x02 because they feel like it.

    Being so full of myself, I have started a thread about the CCI byte here.
     
  9. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Sep 21, 2004
    The problem is at the head end not with the content provider (otherwise everyone would be seeing the issue). If you search the forum you will see several members have gotten this fixed by their cable company.
     
  10. gespears

    gespears Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Phoenix
    Thanks to your great help guys I've determined the following: It looks like the problem lies within one of my cable cards or the Tivo unit. I verified this by catching a program that was having issues, checked the CCI byte and it was set to 03 so I tuned the other tuner to this channel (surprisingly hard to do, it's very strange how the tivo decided which channel is on what tuner and just try to tune both tuners to the same channel) and it showed it as being 02. Tried swapping cards to see if it followed the card but what seemed like the bad card (originally in slot 2) wouldn't even run in slot one.

    So I'm going to get Cox out to replace the card and see what happens.

    Thanks again and I'll keep you informed.

    Gary
     
  11. dolfer

    dolfer Miles Standish Proud

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    Nov 3, 2000
    Milford,...
    It happened to me on MOJO when I recorded Howard Stern at 2am. It deleted the program at 4am with a similar message. Thus, I never got to watch it...
     
  12. bonnie_raitt

    bonnie_raitt Member

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    Sep 14, 2001
    Seattle, WA
    That would be a good thing, right? :)
     
  13. gespears

    gespears Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Phoenix
    Okay everybody, changing the cable card solved the problem!!! Now I get the same CCI byte on both tuners. This is only after one evening of running but it looks like everything is fine. You should have seen the look on the subcontractor's face when I explained the problem. He's like "your CCI bit a what?" But I have to give him credit, he just took what I told him at face value, changed the card, fought through several idiots in the central office till he could get one that knew how to remove one card and reprogram a new card, and got it working correctly. It only took 2 hours.

    But anyway, it's working now.

    Gary
     
  14. pkscout

    pkscout Well-Known Member

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    Honolulu, HI
    It's good that it's working. I still fail to understand how a bad card would cause this. I'm willing to bet your account was setup incorrectly and they fixed by accident when it was reprovisioned. Or the head end had a problem that they fixed before they came out there and didn't want to tell you.

    The cable companies would blame global warming on CableCards if they could.
     
  15. gespears

    gespears Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Phoenix
    I understand what you're saying but I really believe it was a card problem because the problem followed the card in the Tivo unit, and it was definitely still broken when the tech came out because I showed the tech the problem. So the head end was sending the correct data because it was right in the first card and I have to believe they broadcast the CCI byte for each program because it's a program to program change, not a user to user change. It seems like it would be a lot more difficult to have the head end set to send the CCI on a user basis. You either get the program or you don't and if you do get it, then the CCI byte is same for everybody.

    And I've seen stranger problems than setting a bit wrong in a specific byte caused by hardware (or firmware probably in this case.) But there are much more knowledgeable people than me out there that can probably chime in and clear this up.
     

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