TiVoWeb Module : Manual Record

Discussion in 'TiVo Underground' started by cwingert, Jun 12, 2003.

  1. Jan 6, 2007 #241 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    So is this latest version of manual record definitely compatible with both TivoWeb 1.9.4 and TivoWebPlus 1.3.1 as I run both of them on my Tivo using Hackman to swap between them.
     
  2. Jan 7, 2007 #242 of 287
    john1980

    john1980 New Member

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    It should be (and if you have any issues then I'll fix it). I'm also interested in why you are still using TW v1.9.4 because if there is something in it that is not available in TWP v1.3.1 then I'm also happy to have a look at adding support for it to TWP.
     
  3. Jan 7, 2007 #243 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Yes there are two main things in TivoWeb 1.9.4 that are add ons both produced by Ljay and neither of which functions at all in TivoWebPlus 1.3.1 (I have tried them both with it).

    First of these is the User Interface/Preferences/Explicitly Thumbed + Implied by Recordings
    additional module that forms part of Ljay's (www.ljay.org.uk/tivoweb/tivoweb.html) revised User Interface module for TivoWeb 1.9.4 - you can see the module itself and the additional Explicitly Thumbed module code at www.ljay.org.uk/tivoweb/ui.lj.20040404.itcl

    Second is Ljay's httpd-tt.tcl module that logs accesses to the Tivo across the web from outside your home network that are not authenticated (although it actually in practice seems to also log authenticated accesses from across the web too, which I am perfectly happy about) and stores the offending IP address and date and time in the httpd log file. As my Tivo is on the web via simple port forwarding to Port 443 with Username and Password I like to keep an eye on who is attempting to access the machine and if anyone is doing it regularly and repeatedly. Neither of these modules will work under TivoWebPlus 1.3.1

    Basically I can mirror everything else available in TivoWebPlus in TivoWeb except for the Channel Preferences module which is not a module you use every day of the week (although its obviously handy when you change your cable or satellite provider).

    Also I had worrying problems with the Tivo hanging totally stuck between two Tivo box menus (although still accessible via Telnet) when running TivoWebPlus and another occasion too when it stopped responding to all Tivo menu remote input on Now Playing. Admittedly I was running both TW1.9.4 and TWP1.3.1 at the same time with access on different ports, which may not have been a fair test as I never ran TWP1.3.1 standalone with no TWP1.9.4 also loaded at the same time for any length of time.

    Lastly it seems to me that the Yahoo OzTivo Widget seems to take several seconds longer to get the Now Playing list from TWP1.3.1 than TW.1.9.4 and is more likely to cause a recording in progress to pixellate badly while it is doing this with TWP1.3.1 than with TW1.9.4. Of course I do have a very large Now Playing list with 600 entries that most people won't have.

    I'm sure the OzTivo Yahoo Widget could be improved if it had an option to only request Now Playing data for the last 14 or 28 days for those of us with big Now Playing lists.

    I do hope that this helps you in your efforts to persuade all of us doubting Thomases's still using TW1.9.4 to switch to TWP1.3.1. If you could replicate the Explicity Thumbed + Implied thumbs editing module and the httpd external web access log facility this would certainly help go along way towards doing this.
     
  4. Jan 7, 2007 #244 of 287
    john1980

    john1980 New Member

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    I'll have a look at the thumbs stuff, but the log accesses is already in TWP. It will log in /var/log/tivoweb.log all accesses to pages, as well as failed login attempts. Admittedly this is done for all clients although TWP has the ability to request a password only for remote clients, making things a little easier when accessing the server locally. I don't think it would be hard to an an option to only log URL requests for remote clients (thus reducing the size of the log file), so I'll probably have a go at this also.
     
  5. Jan 7, 2007 #245 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Many thanks John for having a look at the thumbs editing and reviewing module (I currently have over 1800 sets of thumbs ratings for programs/series accumulated in the last four and a half years). I didn't realise there was any log for access attempts to the Tivo in TWP1.3.1. I would be running it with a username and password only set for external accessess form outside the local network - would this automatically restrict the log file to only access attempts over the internet as per the Ljay httpd option?

    Also I find the Highlights, Backup and Tracker modules are all rather prone to causing the Tivo to spontaneously reboot due to a memory overflow in TW1.9.4. I have changed TIVOSH_POOLSIZE to 3244068 in the tivoweb file but it hasn't helped that much. So far as I can recall I still got machine reboots after using Backup, Tracker and Highlights in sequence via TWP 1.3.1 though. Any thoughts as to how this rebooting problem with these demanding TivoWeb modules could be overcome?
     
  6. Jan 7, 2007 #246 of 287
    john1980

    john1980 New Member

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    It seems that the "Explicitly Thumbed + Implied by Recordings (Links to a Series)" code is exactly the same as the "Series" code under TWP - they both link to "/preferences/15". It just seems that the description has been changed to the much shorter "Series".

    The following is from LJays ui module:
    Code:
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [th "" "Preferences"]]
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/14" "Genre"]]]
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/15" "Explicitly Thumbed + Implied by Recordings (Links to a Series)"]]]
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/16" "Programmes/Series Recorded (Links to a Programme)"]]]
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/17" "Actor"]]]
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/19" "Director"]]]
    	   puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/22" "Writer"]]]
    
    And this is from TWP's ui module:
    Code:
        puts $chan [tr "" [th "" "Preferences"]]
        puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/14" "Genre"]]]
        puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/15" "Series"]]]
        puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/17" "Actor"]]]
        puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/19" "Director"]]]
        puts $chan [tr "" [td [html_link "/preferences/22" "Writer"]]]
    
     
  7. Jan 7, 2007 #247 of 287
    john1980

    john1980 New Member

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    If you are a DirecTV user then the chances are that you have 700+ channels... which does cause a little drain on the resources and internal structures under TWv1.9.4 and TWPv1.3.1. There is a newer/beta version (TWP v1.4.0) which BTUx9 has been rewriting which has a far smaller memory footprint which helps greatly with the stability problems and slow loading times under DTivo units. You may also wish to give this a go (it should be noted that the drastic changes to the internal structures does mean that earlier modules are not compatible with it - although most modules have already been ported over to it - and these are included in the bundle).

    It can be found at the TWP site
     
  8. Jan 7, 2007 #248 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I'm British don't you know with a Thomson Tivo PVR10UK model in the UK. My tv platforms are Sky Digital and Freeview digital terrestrial dual source (Sky via Scart and Freeview digital terrestial via the RF aerial in socket an option supported on the UK S1 Tivos).

    The Sky Digital Platform has a huge number of channels (over 500) in the database although I personally only take the free channels so only have about 40 or 50 of these channels set up in Channels I Receive plus about 6 chanels from the Freeview platform.

    I believe there are a number of downsides with the TivoWebPlus 1.4 version which is in fact more of a branch for DirectTv users than an actual upgrade of TWP for all users as I understand it?
     
  9. Jan 7, 2007 #249 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Well it never occured to me that "Series" was precisely the same thumbs editing module but having now tried to use it in TWPv1.3.1 the first time it made my Tivo reboot and the second time it came up with the below error.

    This is why, as I say, I don't find TivoWebPlusv1.3.1 to actually be a more reliable piece of software than TWv1.9.4 as you would clearly like us to believe. Bear in mind that I can run the Explicity Thumbed module under TWv1.9.4 with absolutely no issues at all.

     
  10. Jan 8, 2007 #250 of 287
    BTUx9

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    it doesn't really matter how many are marked as received... the guide data slices still contain it all, and within TWP the data for all channels is cached

    That certainly wasn't my intent when working on it... the reduction of memory footprint mostly helps those with large lineups (most notably DTV users or those SA users that go through a satellite system like SKY), but there are also many other additions/improvements.
    It's likely gotten a reputation as a dtivo-only branch because the majority of early adopters are dtivo owners (most likely due to how fragile earlier versions are on dtivos)
     
  11. Jan 8, 2007 #251 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    But I thought that there were some aspects of TWPv1.3.1 functionality that were removed in TWPv1.4 Beta, although I have forgotten for the time being just what those were. I also seem to remember that whatever they were they seemed like they were relevant to me at the time. Also I have tried Beta testing things like Microsoft's IE7 and Windows Defender in recent times and in view of the number of serious bugs in the Betas (especially Windows Defender where the daily updates didn't work properly and kept repeating endlessly under various conditions) have sort of taken the view that its probably easier to let other people be unpaid testers on the Betas and wait for the final release.

    How is v1.4 going in terms of moving on from being a Beta to becoming the fully released current version of TivoWebPlus?

    Do you think the freezes of the main Tivo menu system that I experienced when running TWv1.9.4 and TWPv1.3.1 were due to having them both resident in memory at the same time on different ports? Also would you suggest that if I run TWPv1.4 Beta alone with just an option to switch to TWv1.9.4 via Hackman (with both programs therefore set to use the same Port) that TWP will probably be a lot more stable due to the lower memory footprint of the database? I currently find that TWPv1.3.1 can be made to reboot the machine when using more demanding modules like Tracker and Backup and Search by Advisory Codes just as easily as in TWv1.9.4 unfortunately.
     
  12. Jan 8, 2007 #252 of 287
    omf

    omf New Member

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    I hope this isn't too far off-topic for this thread - please redirect me to a more appropriate location if it is...

    I want to be able to queue-up a bunch of recordings via the command line. Basically, I want to set my Tivo to record for 8 minutes at 55 minutes after the hour (I'll tell you why if you're really curious...) every hour for an indefinite schedule - at least for a couple of days.

    I thought the manualrec function in TivoWeb might be employable from the command line for this purpose. Can this be done, or is there another way to handle it?

    Thanks for your insight!
     
  13. Jan 8, 2007 #253 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Unfortunately the latest TivoWeb Manual Record module ( www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4717154#post4717154 ) only seems to let you schedule a recording for Daily rather than Hourly frequency.

    I see no reason though why it couldn't be modified to provide hourly scheduling if the author (john in New Zealand who is also developing TivoWebPlus I believe) can be persuaded to assist you. I can't imagine that it is a very big change in the code of the module - its just that the need for an hourly recording was perhaps never anticipated at the time it was designed.

    If you told us what your application for this recording is I'm sure it would help us understand the requirement a little better.

    Why not PM john to see if he can help you with a modified version of the module.

    Alternatively 8 minutes at 55 minutes past the hour for a couple of days is only 48 recordings so surely you could schedule this manually one by one using the manual recording option in the standard Tivo tv screen menus?
     
  14. Jan 8, 2007 #254 of 287
    omf

    omf New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I really don't see a need to modify the module itself (I doubt there'd be much use for the modification). What I was really looking for was a way to execute the module from the command line so that I could write a little shell script around it to schedule as many recordings as I wanted. I don't see this as being generally useful, so I figured the shell script would provide great flexibility without requiring any module changes.

    So, let me rephrase the question: Is there a way for me to execute the manualrec module from a shell script with arbitrary parameters?

    For the curious: the Boomerang network frequently pads their hour and half-hour blocks with little 1-to-2-minute shorts that I would like to capture. They're not on any sort of schedule, so my best bet is to just capture a few minutes at the end of every (half)hour and manually go through them to see if anything interesting was recorded.
     
  15. Jan 8, 2007 #255 of 287
    BTUx9

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    re: command-line recording, If you stuff the params into a properly formatted URL, I believe it could be done... you'd have to look at what is being sent to TW/TWP to actually schedule a recording

    re: crashing when both TW and TWP are running... most likely a memory issue... I believe the cache card acts as fast swap, so I'd be suspicious that the fault may lie there... I know both programs are memory hogs, and a uktivo doesn't have much available

    re: removal of capabilities in TWP 1.4... things weren't really removed, but because the memory issues required a MAJOR rewrite of some of the internal structures, module compatibility wasn't preserved (couldn't be)... PortlandPaw says he'll be releasing a 1.4-compatible version of hackman soon, but as far as tracker and search by advisory, I don't know anything about the modules. I believe the oztivo widget doesn't work, either, because it's a webpage scraper, and I've made some changes to formatting (the format is now user-modifyable, so a fix should be fairly trivial)
     
  16. Jan 8, 2007 #256 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    So 101 reasons for not using TWP 1.4 really at the present time.

    You also fail to mention our UK Highlights module with daily program recommendations from the Radio Times plus listings and ratings for all films that day. Again it won't work under TWP 1.4

    Also the OzTivo Widget is one of my favourite enhancements to using my Tivo. And what about Daily Mail Jazz!

    To be honest I think I had it right when I described 1.4 as being a branch from the original TivoWebPlus project.
     
  17. Jan 8, 2007 #257 of 287
    BTUx9

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    thankyou for not using v1.4... looking for people to help improve it, not complain about what it doesn't do.

    (it's still not a branch... when firefox releases a new version that requires updated plugins, it doesn't make it a branch... everything you are listing comes under that category)
     
  18. Jan 8, 2007 #258 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    But if v1.4 doesn't support old TivoWeb modules then its more like v2.0 as far as I can see.

    You will note that Microsoft have never been brave enough to bring out mainstream operating system software that makes older programs or data files obsolete overnight....................

    The trouble is that the guys who wrote the good modules for TWv1.9.4 don't consider that TWPv1.4 has enough users to be worth their while to go to all the trouble of rewriting their modules specially in order to work with it.
     
  19. Jan 9, 2007 #259 of 287
    BTUx9

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    I agree that 2.0 would be a better version, and I argued for just that, but that wasn't my decision to make.

    Many modules can be made compatible with 1.4 with very few modifications... it's not like rewriting from scratch. Except for PortlandPaw, none of the other module authors have expressed any interest in what is required.

    earlier versions of TWP are effectively broken for dtivo users... not only are they very easily crashable, but when they crash they reboot the tivo (for those running v6.2 s/w). TWP just stored too much data, and increasing the mempool tended to cause too much disk thrashing/swap usage.

    In order to get a usable, reliable version running on dtivos and SAs connected to satellite boxes, I had to change how some info was cached and how/when modules were loaded... and I couldn't find any way to do that and retain backwards compatibility.

    If you have problems with that choice, then come up with a better alternative, but until then I'm going to continue on with developing v1.4
     
  20. Jan 9, 2007 #260 of 287
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I think that whoever decided to not call your new Beta V2 was clearly in error as there will, I imagine, continue to be further evolutions of v1.3.1 that continue to provide backward compatibility with earlier Tivoweb modules?

    I am a Sky Digital user and most of the problems caused to DTivo users are also suffered by us. That is that using several of the more demanding TivoWeb functions like Tracker, Backup, Highlights and Search by Advisory Codes in succession will sooner or latter end up rebooting the Tivo. On the other hand subject to accepting the eventual reboot any of these modules do work in isolation and it is only the cumulative memory overflow effect of using several of them that leads to the reboot.

    When demanding TivoWeb modules are not used there is no impact at all on the Tivo which will run for weeks on end without rebooting. Also the reboots under TW v1.9.4 are always back up to a fully functioning Tivo and TivoWeb situation. I was concerned therefore that a crash that happened when using TWPv1.3.1 just left the Tivo crashed and stuck between two tv screen Tivo menus where it would have remained for weeks on end without pulling the power plug or, as I did, typing the reboot command at the Telnet prompt. I have never had a crash like this while the box was merely recording and left to its own devices running only TWv1.9.4 memory resident.

    If the module conversion job is not that major then perhaps the answer is for you to offer to the authors of these modules to update the code for them to run under TWPv1.4 and give them the right to test the module and provide any final comments before you republish them for v1.4?

    I wonder in a way why the further development of TivoWebv1.9.4 was not continued? Presentationally there is very little difference between the two pieces of software but can I assume that TivoWebPlus is based on a completely different set of code from TivoWeb? If not then why was it renamed?
     

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