TiVos not seeing each other on Orbi

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Toni, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Mar 7, 2018 #1 of 23
    Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    We just upgraded our router to a Netgear Orbi. We have two satellites and the main router.

    We have three TiVos - a Bolt, a Roamio, and a Premiere XL4. All of them connect to the internet, stream, make daily connections, etc.

    The problem is that two of the TiVos - the Bolt and the Premiere - can see all three TiVos in the Devices tab, and can see each other's Now Playing, transfer shows between them, etc. The Roamio can't see either of the other two.

    I think I've determined that the problem is that two of them are connected on 2.4g, and the Roamio is connected on 5g, even though they are all on the same SSID. The Netgear Orbi doesn't have a way to separate out the bands between SSIDs. So I can't force the Roamio onto a 2.4g network. At least, I don't think. I haven't found a way to do so as of now.

    Does anyone have any experience with this who can help me find a way for all of the TiVos to be on the same band so they can all see each other again?
     
  2. Mar 7, 2018 #2 of 23
    JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    I can't think of any reason why they can't see each other. When configuring my wireless router (also a Netgear) I gave different SSID names to the two bands.

    Looks complicated -> How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network o... - NETGEAR Communities
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  3. Mar 7, 2018 #3 of 23
    Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    The Orbi works differently from my last Netgear router. I could separate the SSIDs on the old one too. On the Orbi, the SSID is the same whether it's 2.4 or 5. It automatically switches to whichever is strongest. Apparently for the one TiVo, 5g is strongest, and for the other two it's 2.4.

    I kept the same SSID and password when I switched routers so I didn't have to reset all my devices. Maybe I should reconnect the TiVo wireless settings from scratch, but I suspect they'll just do the same thing.
     
  4. Mar 7, 2018 #4 of 23
    JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    I updated my post. There is a procedure to change the SSID.

    My 2.4GHz channel is always strongest. It's just not a very high quality connection.
     
  5. Mar 7, 2018 #5 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Check the Orbi UI for any IGMP-related settings, such as IGMP Snooping.
     
  6. Mar 7, 2018 #6 of 23
    kdmorse

    kdmorse Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    And update the firmware, because firmware level... 1.50? 15.0? Something like that includes additional multicast functionality under the name IGMP Proxy. No guarantee it'll help, but it's another knob to twiddle.
     
  7. Mar 7, 2018 #7 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  8. Mar 7, 2018 #8 of 23
    kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have Reserved IP's set in the DHCP Server? I've seen that help DNS on the local network.

    Also, is there any chance one of the WiFi Access Points has WiFi Network Isolation turned on? Are all the IP's in the same subnet?

    -KP
     
  9. Mar 8, 2018 #9 of 23
    Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    Thanks for all of the replies. I apologize that some of them are a little over my head - I'm going to need to do a bit of research on some of the things you mentioned to be able to respond intelligently.

    My setup now is all three TiVos have static IPs. Our last router had an issue with DHCP that caused devices to randomly not be able to get an IP address so we assigned static to the TiVos so they could also get their connections. Everything is on the same subnet.

    Since two of the TiVos can always see all three, and one of the TiVos can only sometimes see one or the other of them. I know they are networked. The one with the problem is the Roamio on the 5g version of our SSID and connected to the Orbi Router. Currently, this morning, looking at the connected devices, the Bolt is also connected to the 5g version on the router. The Roamio can now see the Bolt. It can't see the Premiere, because it is on the 2.4g version of the SSID and connected to the satellite. And in the time that it's taken me to write that paragraph, the Bolt has moved to 2.4 and the satellite, and the Roamio can't see it anymore.

    So from that it seems like 2.4 devices on satellite can see the 5g devices on the router, but not vice versa. And I can't force them all onto the same device without losing the satellites altogether, which defeats the purpose of having bought the Orbi.

    Some of the other things suggested here, like IGMP snooping and telnetting into the router, are things I'm unfamiliar with and need to research more. I don't see network isolation anywhere in the UI but I'm still looking. I don't think that's the issue though.
     
  10. Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    Disable IGMP Proxying is checked in the UI.
     
  11. Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    So here's a question. I could potentially plug the two most important TiVos in the house (the Bolt and the Roamio) into Orbi satellites using ethernet. I can get the satellites close enough to do that, but the main router is too far away for ethernet connections without having cables dragged all over the house. I've never used the home media/sharing options on anything *except* wifi networks - I am completely unfamiliar with MoCa and have never been close enough in proximity for ethernet. If I do this, will the Bolt and Roamio be able to see each other? If the Premiere remains on wifi and the other two are plugged into satellites through ethernet, will the Premiere be able to see the Bolt and the Roamio?

    I don't know if this would solve the problem or not, and while I can test it out this weekend, I thought I'd ask for input first. Thanks if you can help, and sorry if I'm confusing issues here!
     
  12. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    I think you have a reasonable chance of success. However, since it's unknown why there is a connectivity issue, there is no way to be sure. I just changed the IP address for a wireless bridge used by one of my Mini boxes. It took me several reboots and power cycles before the Mini was visible to its host.

    As you may have seen posted, I have little faith in the internal wireless of a TiVo. I have even used the wireless N adapter on a Mini.
     
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  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Some questions to help gauge MoCA possibilities...
    • Are all the DVRs tuning digital cable (w/ CableCARDs)? (Curious whether all the devices connect to the same coax plant.)
    • Are you also using cable broadband for your Internet service? (Ditto re: whether modem/router location also has connection to the same coax plant.)
    • Which model Roamio do you have (4-tuner base Roamio, or 6-tuner Roamio Plus or Pro)? (6-tuner models include MoCA support; 4-tuner Roamios do not.)
    • Is each DVR in a separate location/room, or do you have two of the DVRs at any one location?
    • Are you in a single-family home, or a multi-dwelling building (townhome, condo, apartment building)?

    p.s. Some MoCA background info links, here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  14. Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    Thanks for the response. Answers below.

    All DVRs are using cable cards, no tuning adapter required, through Charter Spectrum.

    We do use cable broadband for internet. The Orbi is connected to our cable modem, which does not include its own router, it's just a modem.

    The Roamio is a 6 tuner Pro.

    The router is in the family room with the cable modem on its own coax plug. Also in the family room, but across an open doorway, is where the Roamio lives. I'd be able to ethernet it to the router if not for that open doorway.
    ETA: Even though the Roamio and the router are in the same room, they use separate coax outlets.

    The Bolt is in the master bedroom on a separate coax outlet.

    The Premiere is in the office on the other side of the house on a separate coax outlet.

    We're in a one-level single family home that is around 2,900 sq ft including the garage space, which I only mention because the reason we got the Orbi was for our Ring doorbell and exterior floodlight cams to have sufficient coverage and signal strength. When we used our Netgear Nighthawk, we had no problem with whole-house signal strength, but the exterior devices often choked on the connection.
     
  15. ClearToLand

    ClearToLand Old !*#$% Tinkerer!

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    [Disclaimer: I don't own an Orbi and all ideas suggested here are based solely on my past hour of GOOGLE research.]

    When you initially posted, I was thinking "different subnets" or "blocking broadcast / Bonjour". Today's post convinced me that it's actually happening on the same subnet so there must be something related to "blocking broadcast / Bonjour" involved.

    You've been doing good research on your own but in my YEARS of using GOOGLE, knowing the appropriate 'terms' to SEARCH for is as important as the willingness to SEARCH itself. ;)

    I suggest that you SEARCH GOOGLE for:
    • "Enable Wireless Isolation" Orbi
      - Although it doesn't specifically mention the Orbi, other Netgear (and DLink) routers have this problem / feature. Look at the March 28, 2017 hit from ngfirmwaresucks. Check your manual. Try viewing the source code of the Orbi config screen with Chrome, etc...
      - Do you have 'Guest Network' enabled?
      .
    • Orbi TiVo Bonjour
      - we're working with an old retired guy's memory here but, IIRC, TiVo uses Bonjour to find other units and another TCF user in the StreamBaby thread is having a problem getting StreamBaby working with a VPN. Bonjour could be a dead end but who knows what you might find.
    I've been using static IPs for as long as I've had a LAN, but didn't switch over to 'Reserved IPs' / 'MAC-to-IP assignments in my router' until I began using multiple ReplayTVs with DVArchive, WiRNS, IVSMagic and their associated Port Forwarding. If you're setting your TiVo manually, I suggest moving to 'MAC-to-IP assignments in your router' since it eliminates the possibility of typos in the Mask, Gateway and DNS fields. Before you do, though, please go to TiVo Network Diagnostics and check that those three fields are the same for all of your TiVos.

    Hanging a switch off one of the (two? I've only researched Google WiFi) ports on one of your Orbi Satellites is something I'd like to talk about in another post since this one is quite long and I want to SUBMIT it before I lose it (PC is intermittently freezing. :oops: ).
     
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  16. ClearToLand

    ClearToLand Old !*#$% Tinkerer!

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    I believe that everyone that uses a wireless connection on a device that also has a wired connection available should keep at least one 50' / 75' / 100' length of CAT5e in their 'JunkBox' just for troubleshooting purposes. If the other TCF user that recently installed Google WiFi and ran out of Guide Data because of his TiVos inability to 'Set time' successfully ran a wired connection once a week, at least he'd still have a functioning TiVo while he was troubleshooting his problems with Google WiFi.

    From my brief reading of "Enable Wireless Isolation", I'm led to believe that it applies to wireless devices and NOT the Orbi 'backbone' between the satellites and the main router. If you plug your TiVos into the wired port of the Orbi Satellite and it works, I believe that further research into "Enable Wireless Isolation' is warranted. If it doesn't, I'm still clueless.

    Out of curiosity, are you still within the 'Return Window' for the Orbi system? If yes, I saw 'used DLink DAP-1650' Wireless Bridges (via eBay) recommended in another thread recently. When your Orbi LAN is operational, what To / From Transfer Speeds are you seeing between your Bolt and your Roamio? [You'll find Transfer History in Network Diagnostics] I know nothing about the DAP-1650 other than the fact that it was recently recommended.

    I was surprised to read that your Roamio connected via 5GHz - what model Roamio is it? I have the Basic and OTA models and although I've never tried wireless (yet), I assumed 802.11n was only using 2.4GHz. I have a 'New-in-Box' OTA from Black Monday to experiment with (along with Hydra).

    Theoretically, all devices on the same subnet should have no problems communicating with one another. But Google WiFi, and now Orbi, have changed things a bit. My initial take on "Wireless Isolation' is that it isolates LAN traffic from WLAN traffic (i.e. wired PCs unable to access wireless printers) but your situation is different - 2.4GHz vs 5GHz isolation - BOTH WLAN traffic (thus my earlier question about the 'Guest Network').

    There are folks here on TCF using Wireless Bridges and folks using MoCA - both work; only 'direct' wireless doesn't work well for anything besides Guide Data, images, etc... If you have RG6 Quad Shield Coax already run to every TiVo location (and your router), you can consider MoCA, but I wouldn't jump there yet.

    How were you transferring shows between TiVos *BEFORE* Orbi?
     
  17. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Cool. First, I never knew that a Roamio was 2.4GHz only since I used 5GHz when testing. However, I can not be sure if it was 802.11ac.

    Please try this. When you decide to setup that new Roamio, and you get asked to choose a country, hit the remote's Info button. It will display your current software version. Thanks.

    I have benchmarked two basic Roamio boxes on wireless. A file transfer maxed out at 46Mbps. I can not use a Mini when its host is wireless. When using PyTiVo Desktop to get files from a basic TiVo, speed (from Taskmgr) is just about 100Mbps. That's my way of saying I don't blame my router for the slow speeds. A normal transfer between my Roamio boxes is about 94Mbps. I use it a lot.

    A new BF Roamio OTA? Keep this link in mind -> Where to get roamio basic or OTA cooling fan replacement
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Excellent add'l info Re: absence of tuning adapters; that was going to be a followup question.

    It sounds like you have a setup ideal for MoCA, very much what the MoCA ~designers~ had in mind.

    You'd need to add a single MoCA adapter at the modem/router location to bridge between the MoCA coax network segment and your router's Ethernet LAN*; plus, you'd also need to add a "PoE" MoCA filter on the input of the first split encountered by the incoming line from the cable provider, to secure and strengthen your MoCA signals.

    * NOTE: The Roamio Pro could have been used as your main MoCA bridge, if it could have been connected to your router via Ethernet. That said, I prefer using standalone MoCA adapters as the main MoCA bridge because they typically don't need to reboot or reset as often as a DVR; and can be more easily replaced as performance needs change.​

    Once the MoCA bridge and "PoE" MoCA filter are installed, each of your TiVo DVRs (and any TiVo Minis you might eventually attach to the same coax plant) -- all of which have built-in MoCA functionality -- could simply be configured as MoCA clients (with nothing connected to their Ethernet ports).

    Of course, this is all theoretical. With just the MoCA adapter and "PoE" MoCA filter added, your MoCA network may be fully operational. However, one reality speed bump that can be encountered is incompatible coax components, which can either excessively attenuate or block MoCA signals. To determine how ready/friendly your coax plant is to MoCA, you could check the following...
    • Do you know where all your coax runs centrally connect? (basement wall panel, outside junction box?)
    • If/when you can, can you check this central location and report what component is used to split the incoming cable signal out to all your rooms? (splitter or powered amp, brand/model, number of ports total and used) Powered amps, unless designed for MoCA, can be an impediment to MoCA connectivity.
    • Report any powered amps you find on your coax plant that are NOT the main central junction device. In-line amps are especially problematic for MoCA.
    • Note all the splitters used in your setup, checking the rated frequency spec; splitters should be rated for 1GHz or better. A more thorough review and possible splitter upgrades could be needed depending on whether you can get MoCA working, or if the MoCA stats warrant.

    If you'd want to pursue a MoCA setup, sketching a diagram (however rough, so long as accurate) depicting all the associated coax and networking components can be especially handy for planning and troubleshooting.
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Or jump there. With all your current TiVo gear fully MoCA-ready, there's no reason for that traffic to be consuming any of your precious wireless bandwidth, better reserved for devices that have no other option.

    ... plus, as a slightly more advanced setup, the fact that your MoCA client-only TiVo DVRs can be leveraged to provide wired Ethernet access to other Ethernet-capable devices co-located with the DVRs, further lessening the burden on the wireless gear.
     
  20. Toni

    Toni Active Member

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    You guys have given me so much great information, and I really appreciate it. I am researching as I read and trying to understand it all.

    This morning, I moved the satellite in the bedroom to another location in the house, hoping that would force the Bolt in the bedroom to connect to the router along with the Roamio, rather than to the satellite. The Roamio and Bolt have been seeing each other for most of the day. So I'm still not sure if this is a router/satellite issue, or a 2.4 vs. 5ghz issue, but I'm leaning more and more toward trying to figure out MoCA if I can get some understanding of it.

    An ancillary issue that I'm not sure is related or not. The last couple of days, the Bolt has occasionally lost signal on some upper level HD channels. It says, "Searching for signal on channel <x>." The first time, I could hit the channel up and get signal on the next channel, then channel down and the signal to the previously lost channel was back. I tested this on several channels in the 700s and 800s and had the same results. Last night when it happened again, channel up/down didn't fix it, and it was late so I went to bed, then woke up in the morning to everything back to normal.

    I *think* I narrowed it down to the problem happening after the TiVo made a GC/Indexing connection. This is guide indexing, right? I was looking in the system info and noticed the time stamps coincided with the problem occurring. If this is somehow related to the Bolt's connection to the satellite before I moved it this morning, then I'm even more inclined to switch to MoCA if I can.

    Answering some questions...

    I am, but other than these problems with the TiVos, it's been working out really well for our Ring devices and my husband's work VPN. I'd like to try to make it work if we can.

    It's a 6 tuner Roamio Pro.

    Just a note, this is a new construction house. We've been here 11 months and had the cable installed when we moved in. So I'm hoping everything is new and up to standards for installation!

    There's a box on our outside wall and an inside box high up in the master closet that I can't get to, but when my husband is back in town I'll ask him to look in there.

    If I remember correctly, there is an amp in that box in the master closet, but I don't know for sure.

    I don't think (??) we have another amp anywhere.

    The rating might not be something I'd be able to figure out. I don't think there is another splitter anywhere, possibly one going to our cable-provided phone service, but I'm not certain about that.

    This I can do! :p
     

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